Music Libraries – in general
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Hi all,
Thanks, Art for the great site – very helpful!
I wonder if anyone has any advice on using an alias for music libraries. I do alot of work as a hired composer for a number of the bigger libraries but want to get my own stuff up with some of the non-exclusive libraries on the internet. My concern is that the libraries I am hired by wont hire me as often if they know that my name is associated with libraries that offer music at (possibly) lower fees.
If you use an alias do you set up a second publishing company through ASCAP or BMI? Im new to getting my music out there on my own so any advice would be helpful.
Thanks
[Reply]
Dean, November 28th, 2009 at 3:50 am Reply:
The PROs allow you to create aliases and collect the royalties under those names. It’s done when someone wants to do exactly what you’re seeking – to uphold the ‘value’ of your name, and still dabble in the lower end of the industry.
A big one that comes to mind is E.S Posthumus… from my music editing days, I know that their tracks used to be listed on the ASCAP ACE as the Pfeifer brothers. I’m guessing they have gone to great lengths to separate their trailer music business from their album work as E.S Posthumus.
You’ll have to speak with someone over at your PRO – it’s not something they do every day.
[Reply]
Dont quote me on this, but dj’s and many producers have been using aliases for years. Now what or how each track is registered at with the PRO is between the publisher/artist AND the PRO itself. A simple example is paul mccartney AKA the fireman. Now how the publishing is worked out is possibly similiar to what ive described above ( i never checked the cd in my friend’s collection carefully enough to see wether the credits were under his original name or THE ALIAS used here). I dont believe he’ll go through the hassle of setting up ANOTHER pubslihign company just for that, considering MPL is making him an astonishing amount, and costing a fair bit to administer. So the entry in the PRO MAY JUST BE “composer= fireman (aka paul mccartney).
Does that make sense?
regards
S Dhain
[Reply]
A list of Music Libraries: http://www.creativenetworkdesign.com/Partners/Music-Libraries.html
[Reply]
Matt, December 6th, 2009 at 2:42 am Reply:
Those are pretty much all of the biggest libraries. They’re most likely to do work-for-hire deals with composers, because they have the money to pay you well up front (US$1000 a track) and want to own the tracks exclusively.
[Reply]
Dmytro, January 17th, 2010 at 4:30 am Reply:
Hi, Matt!
I plan to finish soon a CD with TV-production music (10-12 tracks incl 30s, 15s edits) to get an exclusive buyout deal with one of such libraries.
Can you give a hint to this task – is it common practice? How much is the average price for track? Can I keep my writer’s share for future back-ends?
Thanks in advance!
[Reply]
Matt, January 17th, 2010 at 11:20 pm Reply:
Hi Dmytro,
I’ve never actually had music ready to shop around to big libraries – I’m always commissioned to write something specific for them. That said, I’m sure you will find someone willing to take those tracks, especially if they are well produced.
It can take some time to build contacts with libraries that will actually pay you upfront, so if you don’t already have relationships established, be patient – it may take months of calls and meetings to get a deal.
If you’re talking about US based libraries, buy-out fees for composers are around $600 – $1000 a track.
NEVER give up your writer’s share – no legitimate library would ever take that from you.
[Reply]
no name, January 18th, 2010 at 1:12 pm Reply:
Also, if I may butt in- keep in mind with the “majors” that they spend a lot of time forming the concept of the cd’s they produce, so they don’t just buy a bunch of great tracks. They are trying to make life easier for music supervisors and editors by creating cd’s that have a clear defined mood. e.g. “upbeat and sweet” or “dark / dramatic” Additionally, they want a variety of sounds within that mood (which usually means multiple composers). so, they usually just buy tracks that just happen to fit into the project on hand, even if the tracks aren’t your strongest material. (Occasionally, they do form a CD based on one composer.) luck and timing are definitely involved!
[Reply]
Matt, January 18th, 2010 at 1:42 pm Reply:
Well said, ‘no name’ – that’s exactly what I’ve seen from the big library companies. One of them offered to buy some of my existing tracks once, but it was probably to sprinkle them amongst various upcoming CDs.
[Reply]
Dmytro, January 18th, 2010 at 2:56 pm Reply:
Thank you, and Matt for detailed comments.
It becames more and more clearer.
[Reply]
One note about composers and music libraries. Don’t be confused to think that you’re in the real game just because you’re getting placements on TV and film.
There’s a huge difference between a music library composer and an actual composer that scores music for film.
Though I’ve received many placements from libraries (primetime and all), I’m still aware that I’m not playing in the big leagues until I receive my first major film score job. These jobs are next to impossible to obtain.
Of course you won’t find the “real” film score composers conversing on sites like this.
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 am Reply:
There are plenty of amazing “real” composers who have also done libraries. If it’s good enough for Ennio Morricone it’s good enough for me and I don’t compose, arrange, or sound design any less A-game for lib, than a film, ad, or any other custom app. In fact, I will say my lib tracks are what’s getting me closer to working with the “name” composers as a designer. It’s a stepping stone. I don’t understand how you can say getting placements in TV and film isn’t the “real” game.
[Reply]
Matt, January 23rd, 2010 at 4:38 pm Reply:
Suffering from low blood sugar today, or a lack of vitamin D?!
I’m not sure what the source of your self loathing is. Composers all the way up to the close circle around Hans Zimmer contribute to libraries. Extreme Music is a library based in Zimmer’s Remote Control Productions, and the composers ‘on campus’ regularly contribute to the library, with not only tracks rejected from films they’re working on, but also music they’ve written specifically for the library (when they have down time).
I also went to Berklee (not that I put any stock in that – just noticed that you did), have scored dozens of films (to be honest only the past 4 or 5 have been any good) and regularly write music for TV shows. In addition to all this writing to picture, I’m constantly submitting to libraries, because it’s an additional income stream that keeps me afloat when times are quiet.
You’re probably familiar with ‘Two Steps From Hell’. I guess you could call those guys library composers, but the level of production rivals anything by Hans Zimmer or John Powell.
My point is that many composers who write for library music are also actively working on films,TV and games. I agree that scoring to picture involves skills that take many years of honing and are above and beyond what’s required of simply writing a 2 minute track. But what’s your point?
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 24th, 2010 at 5:29 pm Reply:
I do know 2SFH…I’ve worked with TJ many times, have known him for about 5 years. I also did go to Berklee for Film Scoring and have many friends that have worked with Hans Zimmer’s camp via composing or orchestration.
[Reply]
Gael MacGregor, May 5th, 2010 at 8:52 am Reply:
Get an IMDbPro account (not expensive). You’ll have access to info films & TV shows in production, pre-production, etc., AND can put up your resume, credits, etc. AND be able to get direct contact info for directors, production companies, music supervisors, etc. so you can pitch your services directly to them.
[Reply]
I’m talking about the kind of film scoring John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Danny Elfman, Dave Grussin, etc. get. A hand full of composers get these jobs. And composers like Hans Zimmer work with an array of other composers and musicians on these gigs. And that may be the best way to slide through the backdoor of Hollywood filmmaking. Work for one of the known composers. You won’t receive much credit, but you’ll become known in the filmmaker’s circle.
Go West young man (to Hollywood) and get in the real game.
[Reply]
s r dhain, January 23rd, 2010 at 12:02 pm Reply:
I have it on good authority that Hans is a very fair man. Getting to any of the aforementioned is a healthy combination of luck, dilligence and obviously talent. Id rather be on that side of the fence, as would many, since the level of artistic control is far greater, as are the rewards ( along with the pressure if youre not geared up for the business side at that level). In the meantime, and back to reality..the show must go on.
Now i must find some lemsip or paracetamol for this cold ive finally succumbed to. Long live UK weather etc
[Reply]
Don’t take it personally Chris. I’m not talking about the quality of music here. But music libraries are far from the “real” thing, which is film scoring. Reality check!
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 23rd, 2010 at 12:37 pm Reply:
I’m not taking it personally and I understand your view. I just don’t agree and I think the term “real” is being put in a box here. Film music used to be a place where experimental techniques, sound design, electronics, and atonality (re: originality) could flourish. The above composers you mention have done nothing but self-parodies for years. Every Hollywood composer and orchestrator I know says: stay in NYC and keep your edge because Hollywood film scores have none. You seem to be puffing up the anointed 40 or so film composers and saying: if you are not on their top level your composing and producing career is not fully consummated. I believe in developing your own sound first and that comes from being the primary composer–even if that’s lib. I hope to design custom audio for composer’s scores because I sound like Chris Jones and no one else. Your “real” definition is too subjective and just too black and white for me. You are deriding an avenue of music production that is a completely legitimate, useful, successful, and lucrative in the path to becoming what you would call “the real thing”.
[Reply]
Daniel Holter, January 23rd, 2010 at 12:47 pm Reply:
Wisdom from Mr. Jones.
Well said, bro.
[Reply]
Anonymous, January 23rd, 2010 at 1:32 pm Reply:
No Chris, I’m actually saying; composing for music libraries and film scoring is completely different. Film scoring takes on a higher level of knowledge and expertise.
We can pretend we’re in the real game with our insert placements, but it doesn’t make it so.
John
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 23rd, 2010 at 2:04 pm Reply:
No I get you. Every composer that produces unique sound recordings intended for unlimited use in TV, film, radio, Internet, trailers, commercials, promos, in-show scores, sports teams, kiosks, industrials, videogames is playing make-believe and isn’t living in the real world. They should stop kidding themselves and realize that scoring a film is different than not scoring one.
[Reply]
BTW, I used the term “real” just to differentiate between scoring work and library work. I think the term differentiates well. I guess my reality check hit a nerve.
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 23rd, 2010 at 2:15 pm Reply:
I suggest “custom” instead of “real” because the opposite of “real” is “fake”. Let me also suggest this scenario: Expertly selected artist needledrops edited into crucial dramatic junctures (scored) of a blockbuster film that function as one of the 17 functions of a film score. Where does that rate for you? It’s like you are saying: if you don’t DJ with vinyl you are not a real DJ, yet everyone is dancing.
[Reply]
Daniel Holter, January 23rd, 2010 at 9:12 pm Reply:
My $0.02 : that’s some more wisdom from Chris.
“Real” doesn’t work, and reeks of arrogance. I don’t think the term “differentiates well” at all, fwiw.
There’s legit music and there’s lame music, and even lame music often makes money… beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that.
And, anonymous John, I’m curious how you arrive at the conclusion that “Film scoring takes on a higher level of knowledge and expertise.” Different, yes. “Higher?” Why? How do you mean?
[Reply]
I’ll critique anyone’s demo just email me by clicking on my name. NO ATTACHMENTS! Links to sites only. I won’t post responses here.
[Reply]
Maybe the term “custom” should be used when differentiating between samples and “real” instruments as well.
Unfortunately the people in charge of the film industry aren’t as sensitive as you are.
I want to make it clear again; there is a lot of great music being produced and entered into film libraries – but it ain’t the same as scoring the next blockbuster.
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm Reply:
OK I don’t even know what that first paragraph means. And OK congrats: writing lib cues is not the same as scoring the next blockbuster. You’re a genius; I don’t recall anyone saying it was. Playing college football isn’t the Super Bowl either–but it’s how you get there. I can see you are not benefitting from a different POV and I’m too busy producing volumes of music for 5 PMA contracts so it’s agree to disagree for me. Good luck!
[Reply]
Maybe “sample sounds” and “custom sounds”.
[Reply]
Now that’s hitting my sore nerve.
I’ve been getting quite a bit of “we’re looking for “real” instruments being played by “real” musicians” for our project. It doesn’t matter if you use the greatest samples on Earth. These people only want the “real” thing. Of course it’s alright if you mix in some “sample sounds” for fx’s, but the bulk of the production must be “real”.
That’s a “real” bummer.
[Reply]
“And OK congrats: writing lib cues is not the same as scoring the next blockbuster. You’re a genius; I don’t recall anyone saying it was” -Chris
Man, talk about blowing things out of proportion and creating one’s own realties. I can see there’s no sense in sharing opinions with you. You can’t tolerate it. You’ll see and hear what ever you want it to be. So be it.
[Reply]
Daniel and Chris, it’s just my opinion – peace. Diversity is not your enemy. I’m a musician and composer just like you guys.
Composing for film (film scores) definitely takes more expertise than composing for music libraries.
When composing for music libraries, the composer basically creates a track of his/her choosing. The library will then consider its marketable potential.
If lucky, the client of the music library may think it will work in their project; in which they’ll insert the track into the film scene, commercial, etc. Most often they’ll only use a fraction of the track.
When doing an entire score for film, the composer painstakingly goes through every scene, every frame and determines what music will enhance that scene. The dynamics and mood changes of the music must be precise. Just a change of an actor’s expression, often needs a mood change in the music (again precisely at the perfect moment). Not to mention the selection of instrumentation.
Multiply this by hundreds of scenes, dozens of mood swings, and I think it’s safe to say it takes on more of a knowledge base.
In no way have I stated that music in libraries is inferior to music being created in the process of film scoring. I think that’s the false insinuation that provoked the chip-on-the-shoulder attitudes.
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 24th, 2010 at 9:15 am Reply:
The only one with a chip-on-the-shoulder was you coming in a saying how lib writing wasn’t “real”, how it’s “not the real game”, and how we are “pretending”. What I tried to share with you is that paradigm of separating the disciplines (so to speak) of lib production and scoring is just not relevant. You are comparing apple to oranges in the sense of scoring vs. not scoring. Your attitude seems negative and elitist and is offensive to me (being a lib composer trying to move up to scoring) and I’m sure offensive to my fellow PMAers and yes, I don’t tolerate that. Like I said good luck to you. You went from looking down your nose at lib writing (career-wise) to explaining how it’s technically more difficult to score a film than to not score one–it’s just two different arguments. Again: good luck. Post some links and show me what you are talking about.
[Reply]
John, January 24th, 2010 at 10:51 am Reply:
Chris,
I reckon truth can sometimes offend, especially when taken out of context, or creating one’s own meanings there of.
I’ve only expressed my opinion. I didn’t offend or insult you personally in anyway. Am I not free in expressing my thoughts? Are your thoughts the only valid thoughts? Would it make you happy if I just agreed with you?
Okay… you’re absolutely right and I was absolutely wrong. Thanks for helping me see the light. God bless you.
Arrogance is in the mind of the beholder.
Peace, John
[Reply]
Daniel Holter, January 24th, 2010 at 11:02 am Reply:
Sarcasm is so rarely beneficial in online conversation.
Where’s that typographic sarcastic indicator when we need it?!
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 24th, 2010 at 5:45 pm Reply:
Go back and re-read your posts. Consider you went on a forum called Music Library Report and said in so many words that no real composers are on this site, lib writing is far from the real game, and we are just pretending thinking our TV placements meant anything.
You are back-pedaling a little bit and I’ve lost respect for this argument. Those comments insult the people who went through the time to create this site and composers that use it to further their careers…maybe even score a film one day eh? After all, that’s the only composing career that matters.
[Reply]
Daniel Holter, January 24th, 2010 at 7:40 pm Reply:
I’m assuming this was a reply to John and not me, right Chris?
[Reply]
John and Chris are making pointless arguments. Most library composers want to be film composers; most film composers want to be music producers; most producers want be pop/rock stars; most pop/rock stars want to act; most actors want to direct movies and on and on to infinity.
The truth is that most people have no clue what would make them happy.
[Reply]
s r dhain, January 24th, 2010 at 10:22 am Reply:
what would make you happy Yadgu?
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 10:51 am Reply:
Nothing. Happiness is not real.
[Reply]
Art, January 24th, 2010 at 11:02 am Reply:
Oh but it is Yadgyu. Depends on how one defines happiness. Count me in the happy camp, been there for many years.
[Reply]
s r dhain, January 24th, 2010 at 11:14 am Reply:
i thought everything was the matrix…little do i know about life, etc
[Reply]
Chris Jones, January 24th, 2010 at 5:47 pm Reply:
If my argument is pointless why are you asking me to critique your demo?
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 6:20 pm Reply:
Critiquing my demo has absolutely nothing to do with your war of words with John. There is no need to be upset. You babbled along long enough. We all understand your point. Now, let’s just forget that point. My demo is way more important. Just do the critique so we can move on to more important things.
[Reply]
You made a good point in saying this argument was pointless Yadgyu. I’m sorry I started the argument. I didn’t realize I wasn’t in Kansas any longer. Maybe it’s more like “Johnny in Wonderland”.
[Reply]
[i]“Nothing. Happiness is not real” – Yadgyu[/i]
Dopey me, all these years I thought I was happy. Now that I know happiness isn’t “real”, I’ll try not to smile as much. I guess my happiness was only samples of happiness.
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 11:29 am Reply:
The opposite of happiness is boredom. Seek out fun and life will be okay. As long as you are having fun on a regular basis, other stuff will not matter in the least bit.
Don’t seek happiness, seek fun. Happiness is just a side-product of having fun.
[Reply]
Emmett Cooke, January 24th, 2010 at 11:52 am Reply:
I’ve met people like you before Yadgyu. You seem to like to argue with everyone, no matter what the subject – if someone showed you a blue pen, you’d argue and say it was red. You’re just unreal. Arguing a point, doesnt make you sound more intelligent, nor does it make anything think more of you.
Everyone is free to think what they want, but seriously, I’ve never seen you agree with anyone – you seem to know best, even though you’re only an “infant” in the industry, aswell as in life I presume. Hell I’m only 23, and I know nothing about film scoring, library music, or even life, compared to some of the other people, but I don’t pretend to. We’re all here to learn something – try learn from other people rather than just argue the point on everything…please. Seriously, just grow up a little bit please….and drop the ego…
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 12:29 pm Reply:
Is that your impression of me? Sorry, pal. I am not here to argue. I think you just made some very good points. How about we bury the hatchet and try to build one another up?
There are a great deal of talented people here that I would like to collaborate with. If anyone has listened to my music and wants to do some work together, please contact me. I am more than willing to create some great work together.
[Reply]
Art, January 24th, 2010 at 6:47 pm Reply:
Yadgyu, I think many times you are here to argue. A lot of your comments seek only to inflame.
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 7:01 pm Reply:
I do not want to upset Emmett. He seems like a pretty stand-up guy. He is a voice of reason on this site. I hope that I can work with him on some projects soon.
[Reply]
Frankly, for me, I don’t care to score a film. I’ve been in enough high pressure, high stress situations to know that I don’t need to go there again. I’m happy as a clam writing library music and I’ll take whatever TV placements I can get. It’s very “real” for me!
[Reply]
Yadgyu, January 24th, 2010 at 7:35 pm Reply:
Would you care to share any stories?
[Reply]
Art, January 24th, 2010 at 10:30 pm Reply:
Sure but first, my minimal experience with scoring. Though I’ve only scored a couple of small films I didn’t find the process particularly different from writing any kind of music. It was generally a team effort and everyone pulled together to make it work. I felt I was lucky in that regard.
Some of the high pressure situations were as a studio guitarist.
1.) Playing record dates for film scores where many times there was no rehearsal. The music gets passed out, press record and go. Being not a particularly good reader it is nerve wracking, especially when you are sitting with 15 or 20 other musicians that can read fly specks. I finally stopped taking music dates.
2.) Working with Phil Spector and yes the stories are true! Particularly on the John Lennon sessions. Easy gig, paid well but crazy times.
3.) Recording a double album live with Burt Bacharach and the Houston Symphony.
4.) Playing live on network TV, such as the Tonight Show.
I also felt some of the same pressure when I had my own recording studio and was engineering. Particularly film, TV and advertising jingles. They almost always went overtime, never booked enough time and wanted it yesterday. Through all of this I saw the toll it took on many of the composers. That being said, if it was offered to me, I wouldn’t say no. I’m just not going after it.
Didn’t mean to blow my horn but you asked. Those are just a few situations.
So, I’m happy as can be to sit home and write library music and be stress free. It’s a happy life!
[Reply]
[i]“Go back and re-read your posts. Consider you went on a forum called Music Library Report and said in so many words that no real composers are on this site, lib writing is far from the real game, and we are just pretending thinking our TV placements meant anything.
You are back-pedaling a little bit and I’ve lost respect for this argument. Those comments insult the people who went through the time to create this site and composers that use it to further their careers…maybe even score a film one day eh? After all, that’s the only composing career that matters”.-Chris[/i]
You have some imagination Chris. Trying to enlist Art in your cause, or just sucking up?
For the record; I implied that composing tracks for libraries isn’t in the same ballpark as scoring for major movies. And it isn’t. Simple as that. I never stated that the composers’ music on this site is inferior.
Back-pedaling? Now you’ve totally lost me.
[Reply]
Hey guys, please let’s cool the heated rhetoric. This site has always tried to be civil and I mean to keep it that way. Remember I control the delete button!
[Reply]
Sorry Art. I guess Chris and I just have clahing personalities.
I’ll cool it.
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I dont know if this is the right section to post this question but I am wondering what people here do in order to protect their music on the internet? More specifically, I am getting together my library to put up on my website and wondering if there is some way to encode the mp3s the way that ISRC codes work with CDs.
I have actually tried doing a bit of research on this but havent seemed to be able to get a definitive answer. As far as I know just embedding info onto an mp3 doesnt neccessarily stay with it for the life of the mp3?
Any info on this would be appreciated.
Thanks
[Reply]
Art, January 29th, 2010 at 9:57 pm Reply:
MP3 is free of copy protection. I think maybe at one time copy protection was tried but MP3 has become the defacto standard for an unprotected lossy format audio file. Embedded info (MP3 tags) can be stripped out. If you are using MP3s for clients to preview your music you could use a short clip, a lower bit rate or overlay beeps or voice every 10 or 15 seconds.
I’m sure folks here will offer other suggestions.
[Reply]
Thanks, Art. Yes, thats what I thought. There is a part of me that says not to worry about it, as anyone who is going to use it in any meaningful way ( network , film or cable tv that pays back end) will have no interest in stealing it or using it without a license. On the other hand I would hate to get burned in some unforseen way by an unscrupulous editor,etc.
The audio overlay is one way to go – does that turn people off to previewing your music if they know they will hear “awesometraks” ( or whatever) every 10 -15 seconds?
I would be interested to hear how other people handle this issue.
Thanks
[Reply]
Just throwing this out for responses but; does anyone know of any libraries out there that are interested in other genres of music and other types of media? About a week ago I sent a few “adult” songs to MLReport and am waiting to hear back but prior to that I sent them a variety of kids songs – all were rejected. This may have had to do with one of two things. They didn’t like them or they’re just not into accepting kids songs. I’m a firm believer that there is a market out there for my children’s music, especially in the area of television commercials and product association. I also think there are opportuinties out there somewhere for a cartoon series based on my songs but where that “somewhere” is?? I’m not sure, I don’t know and that’s why I’m asking. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Here is an example of a collaboration between myself and a friend. I am the copyright owner of the music, and she is the creator and copyright owner of all characters. If you have small kids in your house I would appreciate very much if you would test it out on them. Thanks!
Whoa Nellie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hywK6fUEJIE
[Reply]
Art, February 9th, 2010 at 1:50 pm Reply:
“Duncan said: About a week ago I sent a few “adult” songs to MLReport”
Huh? We are not a music library so not sure what you mean here.
[Reply]
LOL…for some reason I thought “Magnatune” owned this forum. Sorry.
[Reply]
Art, February 10th, 2010 at 1:19 pm Reply:
Maybe someone will buy MLR and pay me big bucks some day!
[Reply]
Thanks Art! Um…so, is this the right place to ask for some advice and guidance? I want to find any libraries that deal in kids music and other adult genres like country/folk. Any help is appreciated.
[Reply]
Art, February 10th, 2010 at 3:22 pm Reply:
Hey Duncan, check out http://www.peteralsop.com/ and send him an e-mail. He is not a music library but maybe he will have some tips for you. He’s been in the field for a long time and recorded a number of his albums at my studio. We go back a long way. Good luck.
[Reply]
Hey Art,
I am a music library composer wannabe and I discovered this site about a week ago. I think it is great! I’m am learning every day from it. One question, would it be convenient for you to add a date posted field to the comments. I was researching the All American Music Library (who have some tracks I want back) and I didn’t know if I was responding to a year old or day old comment.
Thanks again for this site. Hopefully it will lead me to an actual license or two ;~)
Best,
Alan
[Reply]
Has anybody heard of these people ? There is an opportunities page, doesn’t seem to be updated on time…
http://www.atlantic-artists.com/index.en.php
[Reply]
Or anyone heard of these guys:
Contact Sammie Lee Marler Ph. 912 264-9837.
E-mail sammiemarler@att.net.
Or send submissions to:
FIVE ROSES MUSIC
3200 Cypress Mill Rd.
Suite 917
Brunswick, Ga. 31525
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Just pondering…
Music libraries are becoming more and more popular. They’re adding more and more tracks to their already inflated libraries. Some like DSM Producers have hundreds of thousands of tracks.
Do you think because of this developing trend that it will become harder and harder to get placements. Is it possible that five years from now there will be an unimaginable amount of music available so that most of us will get lost in its enormity?
Just this website alone has created additional competition with good and bad consequences. The good is that we have many more libraries to submit our music to. The bad is that the submitting process is taking longer and longer – and the libraries are splitting at their seams with music.
I imagine it’s becoming more complicated for these libraries to keep track of all their music – and for their clients much more difficulty in the selection process. Can you imagine wanting to find that perfect cue for a romance scene and having thousands of tracks to weed through.
Anyway, where do you think all this is going – 5 years from now, 10 years from now? Throw into the mix the ever-increasing technological advances in the music Industry and it all becomes a little disturbing. At least it does for me.
Just pondering…
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s r dhain, March 16th, 2010 at 1:48 pm Reply:
Hi John hope you’re well.
Im sure i gave an unwitting answer to this question somewhere else here on this forum a few months ago, but in any case, ill reiterate my answer for you, and maybe even remind MYSELF of what i feel and think is the future regarding the library music industry. Your viewpoint is ONE SIDE of the same coin. There’s the other side too.
Put simply :-
* Libraries will be ameliorated by the BIGGER ones, creating a smaller pool but with lots of music in each one
* Some will not be able to survive simply cause the proliferation of quality music has reached a point where the value of an individual track means loads of 1c deals, meaning that volume is PART of the solution, but unless the smaller guys (remember this is hypothetical) can then add value for themselves by getting some “name” composers into their roster, then quality alone may not be enough for them to cut it. Remember, some of the biggies have more money to spend on marketing and P.R. and may even be more entrenched within the top ranks of tv and film than we can put a figure on, which means a smaller share for everyone , but exponentially ( i hope that makes sense without me having to draw a diagram
)
* those who survive and/or are thriving may demand EXCLUSIVITY on the deals with musicians, simply to a) add leverage with music supervisors and b) hence keep upfront prices higher.
* More music will be rejected, simply cause the volume of music being submitted is now reaching stratospheric levels compared to before. Some of this may have been fed by the crumble in the “record industry” as it used to be known. I DO know that some of the hardware and software manufacturers have suffered the knock on effect of the loss of recorded music sales.
So there we have it and it’s not all doom and gloom John ( at least i dont see it that way). I havent mentioned minutae like re-titling et al, simply cause im looking at the economic impact of killing re-titling in a climate where everything seems to be a bit “three legged” , so to speak. By killing re-titling right now, for example, the PRO’s themselves would lose out , as would all the ancilliary industries related to them, leading to a change which would be too drastic and haphazard for all. It will eventually go, but i reckon it will take the next 10 to 20 years to be phased out gradually, which may be brought on by tunesat and related technologies being used far more extensively across the board.
Hope the above all makes sense, and hope you keep making music for as long as you love it
Shekhar Raj Dhain
Director
Juicy Audio Productions.
P.S. Oh that reminds me, ive done a few interviews recently, but im not sure if i can link back to them here using the url. I tried putting links in posts in the past, but it used to crash the page.
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Art, March 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm Reply:
Hi John,
It doesn’t really disturb me. I’ve seen a lot of changes in the business over the years and, as in any business, you have to stay nimble. I think it’s hard to tell what the future holds but keeping an open mind will serve us all well.
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Definitely makes a lot of sense Shekhar!
One other possibility is the smaller libraries will flourish because clients will prefer the simplicity in working with a smaller library (with fewer choices).
Also, I think clients may stick with one or two libraries for there needs. So it could be an even split of business across the board for the little jobs. But the high-end mega-force libraries will still deal with the big boys.
I wonder if the score composers will start losing gigs because of more and more films turning to libraries to save a buck.
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“Their” – what happened to the 60 minute edit mechanism?
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Art, March 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm Reply:
I just did a test comment as an anonymous user and it’s still there.
Do you have cookies enabled?
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John, March 16th, 2010 at 4:53 pm Reply:
I’ll check Art. The rating stars aren’t there anymore either.
Thanks Art!
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I was wondering if someone had advice on the best way to label CDs that are sent in for submissions. I understand that sometimes the people listening like to play them in the car, and I know that paper labels can be problematic for that. The manual for my car also says that LightScribe discs can can cause trouble if left in the player in hot weather. Are inkjet printed discs the way to go?
Also, is it a good idea to list all the tracks on the disc in addition to the contact info?
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Art, March 16th, 2010 at 7:59 pm Reply:
Hi Tim, I use a Primera Signature Z1 CD/DVD Label Printer. It uses thermal transfer technology. The printer is about $100 but you need to make sure you get thermal printable CDs.
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The “edits” back now, but the stars are still gone.
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Art, March 16th, 2010 at 8:00 pm Reply:
Hi John,
Sorry you are not seeing them but no one else has reported that problem and I see them here, both logged in and as an anonymous visitor.
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Art, March 16th, 2010 at 8:04 pm Reply:
OK John, I now know why you can’t see them. Please send me an e-mail through the contact form.
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Can someone advise on cue sheets? I’m wondering about a template that will serve all submissions, the most necessary info etc. There’s plenty of templates on the Web, but some advice from you old-timers at the lib thing would be welcome.
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s r dhain, April 16th, 2010 at 10:10 am Reply:
Hi sam, hope youre well
Can I ask why you want or need to do this? are you a music supervisor or running a library?
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I have one here:
http://sonicoctave.com/Cuesheet.xls
Its on my own website to encourage people to fill it in if they do purchase music from my website and use it on tv/film etc.
Feel free to use it – its from a template I found somewhere aswell
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I’ll check it out, Emmett – thanks for the kindness extended. The best thing about kindness is that it seldom results in insanity. And no, s.r., I’m not a library; I’m a lifer musician who makes a living from playing in front of people, and licensing is appealing for the extra income and as an outlet for excess skills that aren’t used in performing.
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s r dhain, April 16th, 2010 at 11:22 am Reply:
aha, prob solved
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Question from newbie regarding registering with PRO
I’m signed up with ASCAP, no titles registered yet. I saw someone comment “you should register before you upload…”
But if they are retitling, what do I call the track? I have the same tracks with the same titles in two libraries. Am I missing something?
Thanks for any info
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Tim V, April 19th, 2010 at 6:44 am Reply:
I hope someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you register it with the title you use, and the library that retitles will register it with the title they’ve given it.
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John (the other John), May 2nd, 2010 at 4:59 pm Reply:
Many retitling libraries use a prefix before your title. Pump Audio uses numbers. It’s up to the retitling library to register it with your PRO. Make sure your library registers it.
Pump Audio is one company that neglects this, unless you hound them weekly.
When I sign tracks with libraries, I give them 2-3 weeks to register them with my PRO. Then I start hounding them. I don’t want to hear any excuses for the delay. I tell them, give me the title you’re using and I’ll register them myself.
If they still delay registering them, call your PRO and have them contact the library.
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On the sites where you can see both views and downloads (Tunesociety, Productiontrax, Musicsupervisor.com, Catooh, Revostock, etc) anyone care to throw out what they think their average views to downloads ratio is. I haven’t been doing this for long, but I’m seeing 1 sale for every 15-45 views on Revostock and Productiontrax, whereas on Catooh, which I’ve only been on for 2-3 days, I’m seeing tons of views (75-200) already, but no sales so far. Any other stats/experiences from anyone else?
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Sonic Psyops, June 10th, 2010 at 12:22 pm Reply:
How many tracks are we talking about here?
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Blind, June 10th, 2010 at 1:18 pm Reply:
50-60 tracks
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Denis W, June 10th, 2010 at 2:37 pm Reply:
Where is the stats /view on Catooh I cant find it .
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Alan, June 10th, 2010 at 9:04 pm Reply:
Go to your upload list then click on the song title. The hit count is under the title:
File name: TITLE
Media ID: ######
View: ##
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Denis W, June 11th, 2010 at 3:18 am Reply:
Got it . Thanks Alan
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On the subject of retitling, is there a general consensus about creating a pseudonym for works that you sell through libraries that retitle?
Thanks,
Michael
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Probably dumb questions from the new guy:
-Do you all self publish?
-Is that the only way to get the publishers share of back end from my PRO if the non-exclusive library isn’t taking it all?
-Do I need to create a publishing company and register it with my PRO?
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Denis W, June 11th, 2010 at 3:31 am Reply:
I live in ireland so I can only talk about here. I would guess the same applies for the States and GB. When you write a song, assuming you dont already have an exclusive publishing contract, you own 100% of it. You can assign whatever % you want or are asked to on a non exclusive basis with multple libraries/publishers. This is a fairly unique situation, really only pertaining to licensing. The notion that there is an automatic “publishers share” equal to 50%
is erroneous. It just so happens that this seems to be the figure that most libraries ask for.
So in a nutshell if you sign a 75/25 deal ( like Pump) your PRO will collect 75 % for you. Check out the audiomicro thread for more on this.
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Emmett Cooke, June 11th, 2010 at 4:01 am Reply:
Whereabouts in Ireland are you Denis? I’m in Waterford myself
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Denis W, June 11th, 2010 at 5:03 am Reply:
Dear old Dublin Emmett. I live up
in the mountains. Nice spot.
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Matt, June 11th, 2010 at 8:00 pm Reply:
If you sign a deal that gives you some or all of the publishing, then you definitely need to have a publishing ‘company’ so that the name is on the cue sheets and royalties get sent to you. Well, at least that’s how it works in the US. I know some PROs in countries like Australia and New Zealand (APRA) allow a composer to collect publishing without a separate publishing entity. Over there they assume you own the publishing… what a concept!
It’s as simple as choosing a name, signing up as a publisher with the PRO that you’re affiliated with as a writer, and then setting up a DBA so that you can open a bank account under the name of your publishing company, and deposit checks made out to it. Although, now that the PROs have direct deposit, you can have the publishing money go to your personal account, essentially bypassing the need to set up a DBA.
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Alan, June 11th, 2010 at 9:12 pm Reply:
Thanks Matt. I already had a live sound company. It recently became a publishing company too ;~). It’s registered with my PRO and waiting for some income ….. and waiting …… and waiting
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I’m now singing the publishing agreement with my PRO (BMI). Is it better/less problems/less headache to register as an individual and not as the company? I wonder, why does it cost 250$ to register your publishing rights and its free to register your writer’s rights.
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Alan, June 14th, 2010 at 4:28 am Reply:
I’m new at this and have NEVER received a royalty payment or license. But ASCAP, (which was probably a poor choice based on what I’ve read here) was very easy to register with both as a writer and a publisher. Registering songs was easy, then adding myself and my previous publisher DSM was easy too.
ASCAP charges a one-time $35 fee for a publishers membership. To me that’s pretty fair. $250 seems kind of high to me. I can only guess this is because typically the writer is the “starving artist” and the publisher is the business savvy weasel looking to make money off the writer.
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John Fulford, June 16th, 2010 at 10:50 am Reply:
Why would ASCAP be a poor choice? They emailed me last night around midnight to tell me that myself and other members can now look at CUE SHEETS through our normal member portal. Ain’t nothin poor about that!
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John (the other John), June 16th, 2010 at 11:09 am Reply:
Yeah, I thought that was kind of cool John.
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Matt, June 16th, 2010 at 2:44 pm Reply:
I agree – this is a great step forward. Cue sheets shouldn’t be considered private information, they’re basically an invoice that all interested parties have to make sure is 100% correct!
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Is it just me, or do Sales drop over the entire board for the summer? I haven’t had one sale on any website this month at all lol…?
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Sergei Stern, June 16th, 2010 at 3:43 am Reply:
I don’t have much sales either..
Would be great to hear about “Calendar sales” from the experienced library composers. I mean, which months are great, which are mediocre and which are depressive
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Emmett Cooke, June 16th, 2010 at 3:55 am Reply:
Well I know that Halloween and Christmas are good usually if you have specialised music – loads of money to be had if you have the right music
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Sergei Stern, June 16th, 2010 at 5:43 am Reply:
And the summer is dead ? How were your sales last summer ?
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Emmett Cooke, June 16th, 2010 at 5:56 am Reply:
Well after checking my Partners in Rhyme account sales from last year, they were actually very good and constant – same on most other sites. So far no sales on any other websites though which is mad.
I need to start composing and uploading some more new music though – haven’t uploaded in quite a while in fairness. Interested to know if anyone else is experiencing down time
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Anonymous, June 16th, 2010 at 7:29 am Reply:
Hello All,
I’m fairly new to the business model that you seem to be engaged in. Are the interent libraries in which you are selling all the retitling model that some on this forum warn about?
Without fear of competiton, would anyone mind providing a short list of “best sites?”
Thank you in advance.
Michael
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Matt, June 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm Reply:
Most ‘royalty free’ sites re-title because they can’t afford to pay upfront, but still want to amass huge catalogs of tracks.
As for ‘best sites’ – I think it depends on what kind of music you do, how much you have, and whether or not the site has recently been flooded with new music because of the MLR! Seriously though, here are some pointers to start with:
- on this site, check out which libraries have a lot of ratings, yet still have a good one (some might have a 9 out of 10 but that’s because there’s only a couple of ratings, which might be from the library themselves!)
- stick with libraries that give you a fair deal. ‘Fair’ is up for debate, but in my opinion that means a 50/50 split of sales (for royalty free sites) and licenses (for license based libraries). It might be OK to settle for less if there’s a good chance the library will have a high volume of sales. Also consider what the pricing is, because you don’t want to devalue your music and get crummy checks because someone’s selling your tracks for $1 or $2. AudioMicro is notoriously bad at this. I think most composers would agree that a good royalty free price per track is around $35. The more the merrier – some libraries go way above that – Audiosparx ($70+), Music Revolution ($50-$200).
- Some libraries are huge depositories of tracks, where unless you have a ton of great music (we’re talking at least 200 tracks) you’re likely to get lost in a sea of tracks. An example is Audiosparx, who proudly state that they have 98,000 + tracks!
- Take the time to read through the comments, you’ll learn a lot about the nuts and bolts of what it’s like to work with any given library, and there’s a lot to be read ‘between the lines’. Everyone has an opinion, based off their own experiences – so take it all with a grain of salt.
From the comments you’ll find that some libraries are easy to work with, and easy to upload. Others are great at giving you feedback and advice. Audiosparx to their credit is good at this, although their uploading system is a bit tedious. MusicLoops.com is much easier to upload to, but you first need to be approved, and have a decent amount of tracks to even be considered.
Keep in mind that there are several different types of libraries:
- Royalty Free websites (pay once use forever)
- License based libraries (pay for one time use)
- Performance royalties based (often non-exclusive re-titling situations, with usually no license fees because these libraries gladly hand over their music to TV shows for free. The composer usually just gets the writer’s share)
- Major libraries (who buy you out by paying well upfront, don’t usually give you any share of the licenses, but get the music distributed worldwide, potentially making you a good amount of royalties)
Some libraries are a combination of the above, like Pump/Getty. It’s important to remember these distinctions though, because for example, comparing a royalty free site to a major ‘buy out’ library is pretty much comparing apples to oranges.
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MichaelL, June 16th, 2010 at 7:06 pm Reply:
Hi Matt,
Thank you for your generously sharing your knowledge — yet again. We’ve communicated before. I posted that message from another computer, and it inadvertently went as anonymous by accident.
I have a lot of tracks — 1000+. They need to be recut with current sounds
Some are definitely “A” work, others are less so. Styles range from Hollywood cinematic to science/documentary stuff to fairly generic corporate.
I can generally find a home for the “A” work. I have relationships with a few exclusive libraries. I’m wondering about the tracks that are not destined for TV or Film, that exclusive libraries might pass on.
I’m looking for places to market the less glamorous utilitarian end of the spectrum. Hopefully to yield modest, but consistent, license fees rather than back-end money.
We’re not talking about crap. Never have, and never will do garbage. But, my experience tells me that there must be a huge market of industrial / corporate / educational / documentary producers who can’t afford exclusive library fees.
I don’t even care if the less glamorous stuff is anonymous, or under an alias. Realistically, its unlikely that anyone will ask you to score their feature because they like your happy corporate pieces. But, I think that there might be some bread & butter money there.
More or less – looking for the best places to market that segment of my catalog. I don’t think that retitling is an issue on that level.
I just haste to waste usable tracks.
Thanks again,
Michael
And John — if you read this — I am working on your tracks.
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Kev, June 16th, 2010 at 10:03 am Reply:
May was good. So far June is dead.
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MichaelL, June 16th, 2010 at 7:34 am Reply:
My previous experience, with traditional libraries, here in the US has been that Christmas and Halloween are most popular. There is also interest in patriotic, e.g. march style music around the 4th of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, and President’s Day. I’ve also been asked for music covering Valentines Day, St. Patrick’s Day, Cinco de Mayo, and Thanksgiving.
Throw in “Pomp and Crimcumstance” to cover graduation season for good measure.
Cheers,
Michael
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Matt, June 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm Reply:
Hey Emmett, I’m sure it’ll even out, either later this month or next month. May was a record month for me, and June is about average so far. Are you sure you weren’t caught up in the whole GoDigital mess? If you have been getting a pretty steady stream of sales, is it possible that maybe ML put a hold on your account? I think it also helps with any website to be regularly adding new music, especially ML.
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Emmett Cooke, June 16th, 2010 at 2:56 pm Reply:
Yea hopefully Matt
This is from all the websites – ie. Revostock, ML, PIR, Audiosparx,Youlicense, My own website, Productiontrax etc. Lots more.
Just slightly random!
Need to get more newer tunes out there – haven’t composed much new in the last few months really as I’ve been busy with other stuff…
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I’ve got a copyright question for anyone who can kindly answer me.
Should instrumental tracks, which are the same as vocal track but without lead vocal, be copyrighted as well ? Should they bear the same title with an “instrumental tag” ?
Should they be registered at the PRO as instrumentals too ?
Just wondering how to treat these. Thanks
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s r dhain, July 2nd, 2010 at 6:48 am Reply:
yes
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Since you can (U.S.) copyright multiple tracks with a single application fee, no reason not to copyright both the version with and w/o vocal.
In most cases, for film/TV folks like us who are pitching actual recordings, I strongly recommend using the SR (sound recording) form as opposed to the PA form. You are allowed to copyright the sound recording, music, and lyrics all together on the SR form. For the vocal version you would copyrighting music, lyrics, and sound recording & for the non-vocal version just music and sound recording.
And definitely register both versions with your PRO. Bear in mind that until a track is actually being pitched such as after being signed with a library, you really don’t have to register it with a PRO. But it’s generally harmless to do so. If you sign a publishing or library contract whereby the song will be used with it’s original title, make sure there are no conflicts.
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Libee, July 5th, 2010 at 9:12 am Reply:
anon, thank you so much for the detailed info. Beatpick did choose 4 out of 4 (with vocals) I was just hesitating to send the instrumental versions. I did copyright using the SR form, so I guess I am covered. Lucky me !
Thanks again for the valuable info, s r dhain too for your “yes to all’
It’s appreciated !
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