Tax Forms – TIN – Taxpayer Identification Number
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Questions have come up on on tax forms and obtaining a U.S. Taxpayer Identification Number or TIN if you live outside of the U.S. but working with a U.S. based company. I have moved the comments to here.
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Categories: Music Miscellania | 
Tags: Taxpayer Identification Number, TIN | 
24 Comments »
This is a little off-topic, so I apologise in advance! I need advice on Taxpayer Identification Numbers for UK residents – it certainly impacts on whether or not we can sign certain contracts, and I’m sure there are some UK composers here who have successfully acquired one.
This topic seems to be shrouded in mystery and confusion! Not even the MU or their accountants could give us anything approaching a coherent answer on the process. We’re a composition partnership and our catalogue is now with a vast number of libraries, many of which are based in the USA. We have also been accepted by some fairly exclusive US libraries who we will not be able to do business with until we have submitted our W8BEN form, which requires us getting a Taxpayer Identification Number or TIN. It’s downright puzzling that as many US libraries don’t require a W8BEN as do.
Any of you UK composers out there who have completed this process, we’d really appreciate some info on the following:
1. Do we have to take our completed W-7 forms to the US Embassy in person? I’ve read and heard conflicting information about this: some say the form has to be notorised with the applicant present and others say you can simply post the form along with all supporting documents (including passports). I’m always nervous about sending my passport anywhere – special delivery is reliable enough but I’ve had the Home Office “mislay” my passport before, and I’d prefer not to have a repeat of that saga.
2. If we do have to go to the embassy in person, does it have to be in London or can we get it done at the Edinburgh Embassy? Edinburgh would definitely be our preference but the website is not at all clear as to whether they deal with tax issues there.
Any advice on completing this tedious but necessary process would be very much appreciated!
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Actual Size, April 19th, 2010 at 2:41 am Reply:
We acquired a Taxpayer Identification Number without too much fuss.. The forms are pretty confusing and as you say, there doesn’t seem to be very much info online about how to sort it out.
To answer your first qustion: I don’t know if it’s possible to do it by post but we did it in person – just went down to the Embassy one day (you don’t need an appointment) and after a bit of waiting around, we got everything signed and sent off within a few minutes. I’d say, if you are able to do it in person, then do so as it really won’t take long and you’ll know for certain that everything has been signed and filled out correctly.
As for your 2nd question – we did ours at the London embassy, and as far as I can tell that’s the only one with an IRS office.. Your best bet is to give the London IRS office a call (the number can be found here: http://london.usembassy.gov/irs/index.htm ) and ask them if it’s possible to do this up in Edinburgh.
Good luck!
Oh, one more thing – we were told we’d have to wait up to 3 months for a response, but we actually recieved the TIN confirmation much sooner than that.
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Some useful info on the tax stuff at the bottom here: http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=824316&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#824316
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Thanks, Actual Size and jez – the info and link both helped a great deal.
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Some countries have tax treaties where you don’t need to have an itin, because you are exempt from paying tax in America. Otherwise you end up paying tax in America & in your country aswell. No libraries that I work with have requested an itin & none asked for a w8ben form either, even when I asked about it. I’ve had to fill out a w8ben form for music supervisors before, but there’s a part on there that says if your country has a tax treaty with the USA, you may be exempt from having to obtain an itin.
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Ah, see this is where it gets confusing. The UK do indeed have a tax treaty with the US, as do many other countries. We already have music with a number of American libraries who aren’t bothered about W8BENs and TINs. But as I understand it, treaty or not you still need to get a TIN, and some US libraries are more meticulous about this. Audiosocket, for example have accepted our music but will not be able to host and sell our music without withholding mass amounts of tax until we submit a W8BIN complete with a TIN – they said as much, and so have a few other libraries.
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I am from Ireland and I got one by sending an SS4 TIN Application to the IRS in the States, got back the TIN in a couple of weeks. It really isn’t that difficult. I would say that the UK has the same Tax treaty as Ireland.
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Hi guys, hope youre well.
I remember when i had to get an ITIN as it was then called (international tax id number), and it was still using the W8-BEN, which does look like it’s changed much in the years since i first did it. Incidentally, if you dont live in london, like myself, then getting to your “nearest embassy” isnt always an easy solution. I went to the nearest notary public who had to get an apostile to verify that im a UK citizen. It wasnt cheap, but you only need to do it ONCE.
I can remember ringing up the IRS OFFICE, which if i remember correctly , is based in AUSTIN, TEXAS, and there was a lovely lady who helped me out with a few oddities in the then form.
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Hi all,
it’s actually *really* easy
What you need as a non-US resident is to fill in a W8-BEN so as not to have yuor tax withheld. To do this you will need to get an EIN ( Employer Identification Number ), to do this go to the IRS website and find form SS-4.
What follows is some advice cut and pasted from another forum :
You will need an EIN in order to fill out the W8-BEN, which is required by IODA in order
to pay you royalties. The SS-4 form can be found by visiting the IRS.gov website. If
you already have an EIN for the US, you do not need to submit this form.
There are 3 ways to submit the SS-4 form for non-US companies:
1. Phone: Call the IRS at +1 215-516-6999. Have your completed SS-4 form ready.
The hours of operation are 7:00 AM – 10:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time.
The IRS will give you an EIN over the phone.
2. Fax: Complete form SS-4 and fax it to +1 215-516-1040. Be sure to provide a re
turn fax number so the IRS can fax your EIN back to you. It should come within 4
business days.
3. Mail: This is by far the slowest way to obtain an EIN, and not recommended. Still,
you may complete form SS-4 and mail it to:
Attn: EIN Operation
Philadelphia, PA 19255
USA
Form W-8BEN
You must have an EIN before completing form W-8BEN. You can find the most
recent W-8BEN form by visiting the IRS.gov website
I took option 1. I phoned them, got my EIN over the phone and receieved hardcopy in the mail a few weeks later. Armed with my EIN, I just send in a W8-BEN, filled in with the necessary details when I return a contract.
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darkstar, hope youre well mate.
Ironically, i have to disagree and say it isnt exactly easy for non US residents even with a w8-ben, cause of the notarisation required; there isnt any way to circumnavigate the two options which are either an apostile via a public notary OR going to the embassy in london. In any case, DONT FORGET TO TAKE YOUR PASSPORT ALONG!
All the aforementioned is assuming you dont live somewhere in the sticks, so to speak, in which case you have no choice BUT to go to the embassy in london. I’d also strongly advise ANYONE to send the whole thing registered international post as well; it took me almost a month to get my ITIN number and I also made a phone call PRIOR to sending cause the form, cause the instructions were a bit vague back then. Its also nice to potentially make a contact in case of loss of paperwork too.
kind regards
S R Dhain
CEO, JUICY AUDIO PRODUCTIONS
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darkstar, April 21st, 2010 at 2:41 am Reply:
Hi,
hah – right, looks like I’m missing step then
To be honest, only just started dealing with US libraries, so not got to the payment stage yet. In fact none of them have asked for anything other than a W8-BEN.
Forgive my ignorance, but being new to this : What exactly are you having notarised, the W8 ?
This sounds like a lot of fun, as my location re-defines “living in the sticks”
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s r dhain, April 21st, 2010 at 7:21 am Reply:
no mate, you need to get the copy of your passport notarised, unless you are close to the embassy in london.
Kind regards
S
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darkstar, April 21st, 2010 at 9:26 am Reply:
Cheers !
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Ev, August 25th, 2010 at 6:49 am Reply:
I don’t have an up to date passport? Would I have to go through that expense too?
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s r dhain, August 25th, 2010 at 7:39 am Reply:
possibly. its about £75 for a new passport, but the turnaround is less than a week.
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Ev, August 25th, 2010 at 4:01 pm Reply:
I live in Canada, I don’t think our passports are that expensive. I don’t travel outside Canada and I have no need of a passport. Where would I get that w8ben form and other forms mentioned on this thread? Is it available for down load on the net?
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Matt, August 25th, 2010 at 4:54 pm Reply:
google ‘w8 ben’
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To my experience, the process goes like this:
1) You fill in form W-7 and send it to the IRS along with a notarized copy of your passport. Even a local notary public can notarize the copy with an apostille (no need to go the embassy).
2) If your application is approved, the IRS will issue you the ITIN…the process could take 6-8 weeks.
3) You fill in from W-8BEN and send it to the Great Big Music Library that pays you money.
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Apologies for this being off-topic – there isn’t a tax thread anywhere, and since this relates to payment the royalty thread was the closest I could find. We need help from any UK or Northern Ireland composers who have successfully applied for an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer ID Number).
We have been experiencing some confusion with correctly filling out form W-7. We want to clarify our exception category and tax treaty article number before we send in the application to the IRS, as entering the wrong information will result in having to do it all again.
We are fairly certain we are in exception category 1(d):
“1(d) Individuals who are receiving distributions during the current year of income such as pensions, annuities, royalties, dividends, etc. and are required to provide an ITIN to the withholding agent (i.e., investment company, insurance company, financial institution, etc.) for the purposes of tax withholding and reporting requirements.”
And tax treaty article 12:
“ARTICLE 12
Royalties
1. Royalties arising in a Contracting State and beneficially owned by a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in that other State.
2. The term “royalties” as used in this Article means:
a) any consideration for the use of, or the right to use, any copyright of literary, artistic, scientific or other work (including computer software and cinematographic films) including works reproduced on audio or video tapes or disks or any other means of image or sound reproduction, any patent, trade mark, design or model, plan, secret formula or process, or other like right or property, or for information concerning industrial, commercial or scientific experience; and
b) any gain derived from the alienation of any right or property described in sub-paragraph a) of this paragraph, to the extent that the amount of such gain is
contingent on the productivity, use, or disposition of the right or property.
3. The provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article shall not apply if the beneficial owner of the royalties, being a resident of a Contracting State, carries on business in the other Contracting State, in which the royalties arise, through a permanent establishment situated therein, and the royalties are attributable to such permanent establishment. In such case, the provisions of Article 7 (Business Profits) of this Convention shall apply.
4. Where, by reason of a special relationship between the payer and the beneficial owner or between both of them and some other person, the amount of the royalties paid exceeds, for whatever reason, the amount which would have been agreed upon by the payer and the beneficial owner in the absence of such relationship, the provisions of this Article shall apply only to the last-mentioned amount. In such case, the excess part of the payments shall remain taxable according to the laws of each Contracting State, due regard being had to the other provisions of this Convention.
5. The provisions of this Article shall not apply in respect of any royalty paid under, or as part of, a conduit arrangement.”
The exception category and tax treaty article number relate to box “h” in the first section of the form which can be found here: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf. If anyone could confirm that we have chosen the correct information (or let us know what we should put if this is wrong) we would be extremely grateful! If you happen to live in or near Leeds, we’ll buy you a pint.
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Art, May 17th, 2010 at 7:04 am Reply:
We have a tax thread now so I have moved you here.
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If you are a composer living outside the US and have your own company like me there is no need for an ITIN and difficult stuff with Embassy and notarized copies.
Just call the IRS, fill in a SS4 form together with the Taxguy on the phone and get your EIN number immediately
Took me 20 minutes..
Then fill in a W-8Ben form with the EIN and send it to the Libraries that need it.
Ready!
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Is there anyone who knows about what difference is between going embassy and notary public to notarize passport? I am going to notarize my passport to receive ITIN from IRS but American embassy is a little far from my home. So I want to go to notary public for convenience.(it is even possible to notarize with notary public by post or online). but like I said above, I’m wondering what is difference(or pros and cons) between embassy and notary public. for examble, such as security problems. I do want to go to notari public if there is no problem to worry about security of personal information.
Please give me some advice, Thanks.
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