71 thoughts on “Making it in the music business.”

  1. Is placing music with an exclusive library all that it seems cracked up to be? Well I have found out that some exclusive libraries are placing their catalogs on royalty-free sites, non-exclusively. Someone here has shown that Audiosparx represents music from exclusive libraries. I have discovered another royalty-free site that does the same thing. To find out for yourself, go to the following link: http://www.soundscalpel.com/libraries/

    I myself would feel betrayed if I placed my music exclusively with these libraries, only to have them turn around and place my songs on a royalty-free site. Not that royalty-free sites are bad, but I would rather place my own stuff there than to have it filter through a library. Since these exclusive libraries own the rights to the songs that they have, a composer can do nothing about it.

    In summary, exclusive libraries are getting music from musicians and are placing that same music non-exclusively with as many royalty-free sites as possible. I guess that “exclusivity” isn’t all that it seems cracked up to be. Sad times for musicians. SMH!

    • “Is placing music with an exclusive library all that it seems cracked up to be?”

      Yes.

      ” Well I have found out that some exclusive libraries are placing their catalogs on royalty-free sites, non-exclusively.”

      I don’t think you’re going to find content from : KPM/DeWolfe/Boosey/Westone/Audio Network/Extreme etc etc etc on *any* royalty free site.

      😉

    • If that is a link to so called exclusives, well I have to say these are exclusives in name only and hold no position of any note in the production music world. As has been mentioned, there is no way on earth proper, high-end exclusives will place material in a RF library.

      An analogy might be if you placed a link on an astronomy forum and said here’s a picture of pluto and what came up was a Disney dog.

      I recommend you investigate exclusives in more detail. A good starting point might be the ones Darkstar suggested.

  2. Jello’s ultimate guide to making it in the library biz.

    1 – There’s a range of excellent midi string packages available. These can add subtlety to a mix. Real players are fine but they are prone to arriving late and require feeding and watering. Like a plant actually. LASS on the other hand is pretty low maintenance by comparison and cheaper.

    2 – Stylus drums rock! – literally! You can’t make it in library without having that legendary ‘Backbeat PushPop’ loop thunderin’ away in the background. Crank it up to 145bpm, whack on some Trilogy and bang!

    3 – Aim to use as many sample CDs as possible! That way you get a wide variety of styles and authentic sounds. Another advantage, is if everyone is using the same loop as you it kinda vindicates your decision to buy the product in the first place. I always find that comforting.

    4 – Reverse cymbals are very much IN. Building up to a climax? Get your trusty rev cym in there just to pump up the excitement level to 11!

    5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!

    6 – Be versatile – show you can write in as many styles as possible. OK, that demo reel has some nice hip hop and blingin beats, but you’re underselling yourself. Don’t be shy, vary it with some death metal, chill out jazz and ethnic Peruvian nose flute. In this day and age you have to, quite literally, do it all.

    7 – Don’t be too creative – there’s nothing an editor hates more than ‘development’ in a library track. To an editor, this is the library equivalent of jumping the shark. You wanna ‘develop’ that idea? Fine – go to music college and show off there or join a classical music discussion group. Libary? Keep it simple – ‘A’ ‘B’ ‘A’ is all you need. Don’t forget the obligatory 8 bar break in the middle and fade out at the end.

    Like one library exec once told me: “The best Christmas trees are the ones that are cheap, can be folded up neatly and stored away safely for a year”

    8 – Long intros – the key to a good library track is a good 60-90 second intro (unless you’re doing ‘trance’ – see 11 below). This coaxes the listener into new heterogeneous audio soundscapes. Gradually. It generates expectation, excitement….an-ti-ci-pa—–tion…. Very useful for editors too as it gives them time to get a ‘real’ coffee (as you may know, editors only drink ‘real’ coffee).

    9 – Always tout your demo via jiffy bags. Face to face meetings are considered less effective in bringing your product to a library execs’ attention. No, the jiffy bag is the standard form of communciation and has been ever since the late 1920s. Just pop your CD with covering letter in there (with fictitious credits of course!), send it off and responses are generally instantaneous. Lately, some composers have been know to send the demo in in blue (or even red) jiffy bags. Which certainly makes them stand out more and by all accounts gets you a review and response even quicker!

    10 – ‘They tell me to be patient!’ – yes, an old myth this. People will tell you library music royalties take years to come through. Don’t believe a word! If you aren’t making a 100k in 6 months get on the phone and hassle them! That’s what they’re there for and, being a gregarious bunch, they also look forward to calls from composers.

    11 – ‘The long and short of it…’ – Make your tracks ‘sizeable’. You’re not providing a starter are you? You don’t wanna be known as ‘Mr. Desert’ of the library game do you? No. You wanna be ‘Mr. Main Course’! After all, if they want short that’s what we have 30 sec edits for! Long is good. Long is…the chance to really express yourself. Long is…your way of effectively communicating your intentions to an engaged listener.

    6 minutes plus is fine, unless you’re doing trance when 9 mins plus is compulsory with, ideally, a 3-4min intro.

    Hope that helps.

    Jello

      • I agree Denis.

        Unfortunately, there are some for whom the irony may sail over like an RAF typhoon.

        It would be sad if a newbie took this stuff seriously, and became discouraged, or tried to follow the “sage” advice.

        What does it take to get that bitter?

    • “5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!” – Jello Puddin’

      Thanks, but no thanks Jello. It must be an awfully dull life doing what everyone else is doing.

      Bottom-line…

      Why does one create music (or should I say arrange notes & sounds)? I’d be a composer even if there wasn’t a cent to be made from it. It’s known as a love for the art . You know; it’s all about PASSION!

      Making money, although very useful, isn’t much of a life goal. It’s a by-product of work. Passionate, stimulating “work” is all-important. One needs it to fully appreciate life.

      Anyone can make money. Boring, very…

    • OK fellow writers:

      In an effort to offer something truly helpful, not snide, condescending or ironic…
      Despite what is implied in Jello’s post, it is possible to make some very good music with samples.

      So, to those of you sitting at home in a bedroom studio with a computer and a bunch of samples, check out “Where’s the Orchestra” from Mike Patti, one of the developers of CineSamples.

      Mike presents an orchestral mock-up and a live recording of the same piece for comparison. Does the live orchestra sound different? Yes. Does the mock-up sound horribly fake and cheesy? Not to my ears, but you be the judge. In 99% of circumstances, the mock-up is great and would work in almost any library.

      If it is your ultimate goal to record live, be prepared to submit a mock-up at this level as a demo, especially if you’re trying for an upper tier exclusive library, who will pay you upfront and hire an orchestra to record the track. This will give you an idea of where to set the bar.

      FYI. Mike very generously provides a link to a PDF of the score.

      Listen, learn and enjoy!

      Pay no attention to the grouse behind the curtain.

      Cheers,

      Michael

      http://wherestheorchestra.com/2011/02/sampled-vs-live-orchestra-example-7/

      PS. No I do not work for CineSamples. I am merely a satisfied customer.

      • Thanks MichaelL. I loved his screen casts where he did, let’s say an action cue in 10 mins.
        He makes very valid posts on his blog re the whole samples/ musicians/ budget issues re film and TV. The bottom line is use whatever tools you have to make the best music you can and within budget, if that’s your goal.

        The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types.. Only the terribly insecure and bitter composer still harps on about this.

        • It’s fascinating to see how people have interpreted this fairly innocuous post. I’m gradually becoming more villainous with each new comment.

          At this rate, in 10 posts time my ’11 step guide’ will be denouncing religion and casting doubt upon the moon landings.

          Amusing 🙂

          • >It’s fascinating to see how people have interpreted this fairly innocuous post. I’m gradually becoming more villainous with each new comment.<

            Innocuous or not, your condescending approach is fairly consistent throughout numerous posts.

            There are a lot of people here. They are not all blessed with your presumed skill, or the good fortune to write for all of the best exclusive libraries, as you apparently do, or with the luxury of live musicians to the degree that you seem blessed.

            Seriously, what was the point of your post other than to mock writers less informed, less skilled and less privileged than you (or at least than you perceive yourself to be)?

            It really won't help those who are struggling, except perhaps to make them feel worse, or discouraged.

            Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today. But, I don't see the fun or sport in that.

            Michael

        • “The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types..”

          Denis…this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of US prime time programming is scored with samples. Many feature scores are hybrids of live and sampled instruments.

          Not to toot my own horn, but here’s a reality check: between now and the end of August I will write and produce approximately 3 hours of music that will run on FOX and CW (not prime time) for several years. All of it — 100% –will be produced with samples.

          It’s simply wrong, and harmful to new composers, to dismiss technology. Total BS.
          In fact, it’s quite the opposite. If you do not embrace technology to it’s fullest, you will be, for the most part, on the outside looking in. You might as well be a blacksmith.

          1) Good writing is still good writing. Bad writing sounds just as bad with live instruments as with samples.

          2) The difference between pro’s and non-pros is often HOW they use samples. You must know how to use samples. One technique is to use controllers to breathe life into the instruments. For example: when a live trumpet plays a crescendo it doesn’t just get louder, it’s timbre gets brighter. If you’re just changing the volume instead of manipulating volume and tone with controllers, your trumpet will sound like a synth. The same is true with other instruments.
          a) play the parts as much as you can, use round-robin samples, and don’t over quantize.

          3) Don’t be afraid to use tools like Stylus RMX. Yes, it’s been around for a while. But, there are so many things you can do to modify the loops to create your own sound. Split out the kick drum or snare. Add some compression and FX …change the feel!!! Lock it to Omnisphere and Trilian. Most people only scratch the surface.

          4) So if you just want to sip tea up on your pedestal and look down on the rest of us –fine –write chamber music for real instruments — and take comfort in your superiority. But if you really want to work in this business. Embrace technology, study, learn and have fun!
          Here’s a bunch of tutorials from the very talented Daniel James — who knows how to get the most out of virtual instruments.

          5) Oh yeah — write in as many styles as you want. If your not having fun it ain’t worth it! Maybe you can’t make authentic “Peruvian Nose Flute” music. But, if you’re smart and creative you’ll use indigenous in non-traditional ways.

          My point –BE INSPIRED — and don’t listen to all of the negative, condescending BS, from those who are just pumping up their own egos.

          The very talented Daniel James offers many virtual instrument tutorials:
          http://www.youtube.com/user/dazexus

          Cheers and best of luck to all,

          Michael

          • Must say, in fairness to Jello, i thought his post was rather funny, although I didn’t see what preceded it and i don’t follow his posts religiously (note the inclusion of “religious” just to get the ball rolling) I use Stylus, a string library, Omnisphere, Trillian and a bunch of others. To each his own. It’s not the tool, it’s how you use it. (been hearing that since i was sixteen)

            • Regardless of the production paraphernalia, a music track stands alone and will speak for itself. If a track knocks one’s socks off, one would have to be an idiot to question its worthiness based on means of production.

  3. Why do successful composers go through music libraries? I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly. Do music supervisors look down on musicians who send them music directly? Do music supervisors even care about licensing songs directly?

    • Because sales and marketing of your music is very time consuming, a full time job in itself. Not that there aren’t composers who are successful marketing directly. But many have found that they are better off using the hours in the day to compose more music, not be a salesman.

      A few other things…

      A large percentage of composers have F/T day jobs and compose on nights and weekends. That doesn’t leave much time for the sales and marketing.

      There’s a reason why music sups like libraries. Most libraries have thousands of tracks to quickly search through at the touch of a button. Others are more boutique and will search very carefully for what the client needs and narrow down to a few which they will pitch. They can become “trusted sources” and save a ton of time and aggravation for the sups.

      Along the lines of “trusted sources”, there is the business aspect– pre-cleared music, contracts in place, reputation, etc.

      In NO WAY am I discouraging people from going direct in their marketing. But it’s wrong to assume how that other 50% is so easy to claim. It’s very hard work. There’s no free lunch.

      🙂

      PS Did you used to come on here with a name that started with “Y”?

      • Advice: “Did you used to come on here with a name that started with “Y”?”

        Haha! I’ve thought the same for awhile. IIRC, Art said it was a different IP, but proxy servers can be used to get around that.

        • True but I think it would be difficult to for three different user names to all have the same IP address and, if they were truly different people, to know what IP address the others were using.

          • Not sure about all this gumshoe business trying to figure out identities. The site allows for anonymity. I think either this option should be changed, or a person wishing to remain anonymous should be respected.

            • Hey John (the other John). Wondered where you were.

              Assuming the you are “that” John (not saying you are), I’m thinking about moving north of you, wherever that may be, in a year or two.

              Cheers,

              Michael

              • Yep, PA John here. 😀

                Funny, I’m thinking about moving up North with my brother. He lives in Maine.

                This area isn’t fit for peaceful living anymore. We’ve gone from 20-30,000 to 200,000 in the last two decades. A lot of drug dealers, corrupt politicians, crimes galore, insane traffic conditions, strip mall after strip mall, loose cats everywhere, etc, etc….

                Besides that, it’s a good family environment.

                Been busy, though I do stop by daily, but don’t usually stay for discussions.

                Take care, John 🙂

      • I don’t think you need to be a salesman to pitch songs to music supervisors. It just seems it would be easier to get consistent work with a direct connection. I know a guy that hooked up with a music supervisor and got songs placed on a full season of a reality TV show. He didn’t get any upfront cash but he got all of the backend for the songs. But he got lucky. Hopefully that sort of luck comes my way.

        • Synth,

          I just don’t want folks to underestimate just how time consuming and challenging it can be. I’m not talking about the occasional contact, I’m talking on a larger scale with the intention of a degree of financial success. It’s definitely not as simple as a few emails or phone calls followed up by shotgunning out CDs and links.

          I don’t know you or your music. What I caution against is getting too focused on changing the ‘other side’ of the game when the music itself is the issue. What I call the ‘music’ encompasses a lot including some or all of composition, production, engineering, natural sounding instruments, matches various sound-likes, readily “tag-able”, and so on. I don’t want to debate the good and bad in music, since it there are lots of variables and grey areas, but I think most folks know what I mean here.

          So if your music sounds like it came from a 1980 Casio keyboard (not saying YOURS does) and you are focused on whether to use libraries or go direct, you are putting the energy in the wrong place.

          It also is a good idea to build up a bio of placement credits through libraries first (if you have no placements yet), because when you do approach supervisors directly, you can use your credit list to your advantage.

          And if most libraries are rejecting your music (again NOT saying that is your situation), that tells you a lot about the overall film/TV marketability of what you are creating.

          🙂

          • I totally agree with you. The focus should be on making the best product possible, to make sure that recording quality is good, mixed well, and mastered. Also agree that most of us are not good salespeople, or marketers of our own product, and also handling the money. I had a few experiences back before I started doing this of doing tracks for people and never getting paid, or getting paid too little for my product. Music libraries for the most part are a great way to get you music out there to people, and make some money. Over time you may get the ears of a music supervisor.

          • I have some info for those who have played the music library game and have lost. If you have over 100 cues in multiple libraries but are not making a steady living off of your music, maybe your music isn’t the problem: maybe you are not visible enough. I myself plan on bypassing non-exclusive retitle libraries. I have discovered that I could probably get my songs placed on these shows myself if I got in contact with the production supervisors. So I did a search and came up with a list of tv producers and executives that I can contact. If you are unafraid of cold-calling a few hundred companies, follow the link: http://www.natpemarket.com/pdf/2010/N10RegistraintsListCountrycompanyLastName.pdf

    • I can’t hold it in any longer.

      Synth Player says: “I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly.”

      That is completely idiotic. Imagine I have a car factory and I sell cars through dealerships throughout the country, let’s say, 100 dealerships, and they give me 50% of the revenue. Now I think, oh but wait, I could go and sell all those cars myself. NO, you OBVIOUSLY can’t! Good luck having enough hours in the day to be in 100 different places selling your cars at the same time. This is such basic business sense. It’s called scaling up. You cannot physically be in 2 or more places at once, you cannot physically be on 5 phones at once, you cannot sell your music at the same rate as 10 people can ON YOUR OWN. So you make one product, and then you have affiliates sell it for you in volume. THAT is how you get rich. The only exception is when you are such a good deal breaker that you find a deal which other affiliates aren’t capable of closing and/or finding.

      To think that it is as simple as “oh yea, all the deals my affiliates get, I’ll just cut them out” is so naive it makes me cringe.

      • Sorry that you disagree with me. When I go from 100k to 200k, I am implying that a songwriter would get writer’s royalties + publisher’s royalties. Most songwriters only get the writer’s royalties. The music library collects the publisher’s royalties. Also, my PRO pays out the publisher’s share a month ahead of the writer’s share. They get their 50% before I get my 50%.

        Just to let you know, I am in talks with two TV production companies. I am not sure where this will lead, but it is exciting talking to professionals over the phone. If all goes well, I may be able to supply about 60 songs directly to TV shows. I am shooting for a deal with no advance but all of the backend royalties (publisher’s share + writer’s share). It isn’t easy but it isn’t impossible either.

  4. So if you have tunes in a music library where they take 50% of the PRO royalty, you register those tunes with Tunesat? Or would those tracks be registered with Tunesat by the music library/publisher?

    Any tracks that are with more than one music library on a non-exclusive basis would be difficult to identify with Tunesat since they use the waveform as the identifying factor. There would be no way of knowing who placed the track that picked up the airplay. That’s one big reason I haven’t signed on with Tunesat. And with those tunes that are exclusive to a library, I would think the company would foot the bill for Tunesat – it certainly would be in their best interest to do so. Just curious as to your thinking on this.

    • At this point all of my deals (which are few) are non-exclusive. I’m not that concerned with who placed them only that I know they have run on the air. As the music library that placed them is getting the publishing income it behooves them stay on top of it. I expect over time more and more libraries will sign with Tunesat but for now I’m paying for it. My thought is that if they don’t show up on my BMI statement I would call the production company and find out who placed the music. I would then try and track down the cue sheet (or lack of), notify BMI and make sure I get paid!

  5. There was one more thing i was gonna put up, but ended up rushing off to a business meeting..

    It’s taken from audiomicro’s site, so ill include the link to the page AND the article below :-

    80% of PRO Artists Never Receive a Single Broadcast Royalty – Ever!
    May 27, 2008 12:28 pm

    We learned of this information from an interview for a former US Performing Rights Organization (PRO) employee. Although we cannot prove it’s actually true at this point in time (our internal audit staff is busy tying down the numbers), we are confident that it’s at least directionally correct (i.e. 70% to 90% really). Let’s be clear about one thing – we love PRO and we think they should have even greater authorities in the digital era, which we can address in later posts. But the point of this post is that most PRO artist pay dies and never receive royalties. Artists should be aware that by becoming a member of a PRO, you are not going to magically (or automatically) receive a broadcast royalty check in your mail box. In a world where anyone with a computer can create and record and distribute their own content, becoming an accepted member of these organizations is not such a big deal. Actually, being rejected is pretty much impossibe. There are no prerequisits to joining a PRO (other than being alive and living on planet earth) so be careful to note that just because they will accept your annual membership dues does not mean you will automatically become a part of the broadcast royalty gravy train – you need to get your content placed, in order to kickstart that process, and AudioMicro is the perfect outlet for making that happen. AudioMicro would like to turn you onto the idea of licensing your content through our uniform pricing model, meaning “all customers are created equally”. The model is coined “democratic” because it treats all customers and artists the equally, regardless of the size of the outlet and the content itself. We do not discriminate but rather facilitate your content licensing needs. In addition, we pay the highest royalty rate in the micro stock music industry here at audiomicro so we hope you will feel welcome and trust that we have your best interests in mind – both artists and customers alike.

    Posted in: ASCAP, BMI, micro stock music, Performing Rights Organizations, PRO, royalty free music

    LINK TO PAGE :-

    http://www.audiomicro.com/royalty-free-music-blog/category/bmi/

    • “annual membership dues”?

      The PROs in the US don’t charge anything for writers.

      Sounds like the authors of that article don’t know much about what they’re talking about.

      No detail in this article either… are they implying that everyone is owed money / underpaid by the PROs (probably true), or that most writers simply aren’t on the survey ‘radar’?

      It’s widely known that the PROs expect (and build into their annual budgets) that a large amount of what should be paid to writers and publishers isn’t. Especially murky is the world of international royalty distribution.

      No doubt the technology is here to ensure a much more accurate system of royalty distribution. The PROs drag their feet on adopting new technology (track recognition, watermarking etc) and make the royalties statements notoriously complicated and ambiguous. Why? It’s in their best interests not to pay out!

      As you have mentioned, it is very important to follow up on your royalties before and after the statement comes in. Many links in the chain can break (cue sheets incorrect, missing info, not sent etc) which results in you receiving only part or even none of your royalties.

      Don’t rely on libraries and TV shows to do all of this legwork… whenever possible do your own due diligence and chase the royalties that are owed to you. Unfortunately, companies like Pump Audio make this almost impossible, because they re-title without informing you of the new name (and use long ID numbers for track names!)

      • This is where Tunesat comes in handy for me. I can get a good handle on what is running and check against my BMI statement. If not on the statement call the show and hound them. I only started in June of 2009 so we’ll see on the Jan. statement what happens if things that show up on Tunesat don’t appear on my statement.

        I did have one occasion to call a show about music that appeared on Tunesat but I didn’t have knowledge of it. Small cable show but they were more than happy to talk the problem through with me. Turns out it was a problem with Tunesat and the data they received for the schedule. Point is I can better track the music now.

      • Dean:

        I totally agree and I must also add that it is not enough to join a PRO in that,

        once you have confirmation of membership, you need to and must follow through with due diligence and register ALL your titles with that PRO so that they can actually pay you! If they don’t have that info they can’t allocate any funds to you!

        By way of example:
        I have a friend who has been a member of BMI for years and he was whining at me that he has never received a single PRO royalty ( this person is a relatively well known song writer)

        So after searching the BMI repertoire on line we discovered that he had never registered ANY of his works/titles with BMI at all !!

        long story short, if you don’t register your titles with your respective PRO they can’t pay you because they don’t know what uses they are paying you for so even if you use Tunesat PROs can’t verify the usage and they can’t pay you !!!

        In fact I have actually had extremely pleasant surprises BECAUSE I all ways take the time and make an effort to register EVERY single track ( it’s actually quite simple!)

        PROs are all ways FREE to join and it is all ways FREE to register your titles with them and you can do it on line

        So yes the author of this article is sorely miss informed.
        How ever it would not surprise me if those alleged 70-90% of unpaid composer /writers
        never bothered to register any of their works

  6. incidentally, BMI have an office in the UK….their contact number is 0207 486 2036 in London.
    they have access to ASCAP stuff too, and are great to deal with.

    I’ll give you a hypothetical situation where this may be useful…

    Lets say a US library/licensing house does the standard 50/50 retitle deal and says theyll register your work with BMI for you. Now you can check here in the uk, without having to spend a fortune on transatlantic phonecalls and call queues.

    Incidentally, i also got clarity on the the backend issue in the uk; the money comes to BMI and THEN to PRS ( if youre registered with them, of course).

  7. Hi all,

    Ive just spent half an hour on the phone to someone at PRS, and in that time she did admit to me that PRS is a REACTIVE organisation.. Ill explain.

    In effect, i was chasing up royalties on american tv show placements from MARCH 2008. Ill repeat that..thats MARCH 2008. I provided as much information as i had, which basically amounted to the names of the shows. This was back in AUGUST 2008.

    PRS still havent recieved any conclusive response from either BMI or ASCAP. The rationale given – which is sadly factual- is that because i cannot provide them with CUESHEET and BROADCAST INFO such as dates and times, then they cant do much else but wait.

    The point im making, is this; if you KNOW your music is being placed, and you signed up to the prospect of a backend PRO money deal, then please please PLEASE try to get as much info as you can from the library or licensing agency you assigned the music to, including cue sheets if possible. Now to my knowledge, ONLY musicsupervisor.com are that dilligent and thorough. The rest…maybe YOU GUYS can be more forthcoming on that for THE REST OF US?

    At the end of the day, a 50/50 ( or whatever the deal is) is only worth the paper its written on, when youre recieving the money no glitches. This isnt the first time ive had to chase things, but this particular situation im almost having to write off, cause i have a feeling someone somewhere didnt bother to even touch the paperwork…

    On a suggestive note, LIBRARIES AND LICENSING AGENCIES can really win brownie points if they showed some kind of stats , again a la musicsupervisor and yooka music, to their artists, cause if nothing else, it inspires confidence. The grey area of wether theyd let you know whats going on regarding useage if youve been waiting forever, is another matter; if they let you know EXACTLY where its being used, with salient names details etc to chase your money, then whats to stop YOU from contacting the tv show or production house directly?

    Thank you for your time and remember..you cant be too lax about the business end, cause someone else is making ££ or $$ on your hard work.

    Big Love

    S R DHAIN

    DIRECTOR

    JUICY AUDIO PRODUCTIONS.

    • The same is probably true of most PROs. My partner and I are considering legal advice for a TV ad that ran in the UK two years ago. The money is out there somewhere, but finding it is like taking the stations of the cross. Yet this is where the money in the music business lies. I’ve also had basically the same response when I pointed out that a song of ours was performed in a Dutch Pop Idol/X Factor type show on TV. As I didn’t have the actual date it was used (I came across it by accident on YouTube!), we’ll just have to wait and see. Be careful folks, and very anal retentive when it comes to paperwork.

  8. Thanks for the kind words Steve. Now about those pounds:-) Really though, I have learned as much as anyone here. It’s helped me tremendously on where to pitch and who to pitch to. It’s also made me realize how much work has to go on in the back end admin part of this biz. So thanks to everyone for being so forthcoming and willing to share their experiences!

    Happy Tofurkey day to all. There is much to be thankful for, with or without a national holiday!

  9. Once again – ive done it privately a few times- I have to thank Art from the bottom of my heart for this site, cause until it came along, i was ALWAYS pitching round the clock and sometimes pouring through pages and pages of spiel in the name of contractual agreements when submitting to supervisors. So help me god, this business – and IT IS a business – isnt for the weak of mind or even stomach, but stuff like this has made it PHENOMENALLY easier for stalwarts and newcomers alike to suss out what’s right for them. Especially when you consider that the CEO’s themselves are coming on to comment on their businesses..when was the last time, other than rare interviews on the net, which could have been deemed to being freebie promos for their businesses, did or have you seen that?

    Ill stop there before it looks like art has chucked me a few thousand pounds for promos himself, or im high on stimulants (lol…afraid not, i dont have the time right now even for a relaxing beer or two). Im just glad someone has done this, and we’re all (hopefully) going to be contributing to MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the business for all of us now and in the future.

    Kind regards

    S R DHAIN
    DIRECTOR
    JUICY AUDIO PRODUCTIONS.

  10. Thanks everyone for the feedback. The actual income figures seem to point at keeping a daytime job, unless you are extremely prolific and productive. I guess an established artist with a name can rake in big dollars with a movie or tv contract, but generally, that type of artist is going to be a performer first.

  11. Both frank and Dean have covered the lot, in terms of the pros and cons, including good average ROI guides on the music. the ONLY point i can add, is that if youre outside the USA, then it takes much longer to get the money via your PRO ( eg PRS) than if youre resident in the states. Up to TWO YEARS in some cases. It also pays to keep track of what has been used if you suspect you havent been paid for something, cause misspelt cue sheets, or even NON FILLED cue sheets arent uncommon.

    regards

    S Dhain

  12. General rule of thumb has been $300-400 per tune per year. That’s both license fees and PRO royalties. Some tunes may make much more while some will make little or no money – it’s an average. However, I think that with the recent huge influx of music into a fast growing number of libraries vying for the same available placements, that number has diminished.

    Any way you look at it, to make anywhere near decent money in this business you need hundreds of solid tunes in many good libraries.

  13. Just wondered if anyone has any actual success stories that give beginners any ideas about how much a tune can make in actual dollars from licenses and royalties. I’m just starting out and wonder how lucrative library placement can be. Also, How people who place 20-25 songs might do in a given year in terms of income.

    I also was curious about any experiences with publishers who are listed as non-libraries, or whose music is not royalty free.

    • Hi Mike, I wish there were simple answers to your questions!
      The truth is that it “all depends”. Sorry for the standard cliché but it’s true.

      It depends on:
      – How good your music is, in particular how well it is produced. This usually determines how much money you might be able to get for a license, and if it will get used/bought at all.
      – How usable the music is, i.e. is it easily implemented in TV or film. Is it evocative, sit behind dialog well (or grab your attention for trailers and promos). Also important is how needed is the genre of your music, and how much of it is already out there (competing with yours for getting used)
      – Where you’ve put your music…It depends on how good the libraries are at selling (royalty free etc) or how good their connections are (for getting placed on TV and film for licenses and/or royalties)
      – How many different places you put the music, for non-exclusive deals. No shame in pimping the same tracks out to 10+ companies to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.

      In the license world, 20-25 songs/tracks might equate to big bucks annually, IF your music is top notch, and in the hands of some seriously connected libraries. One license at the top end of the industry can be upwards of $10K, for trailers and films.
      The reality is that for most composers, license income from 20-25 tracks (based my experience and that of my friends) is not much per year. You might get lucky with one or two good licenses, or none at all. You really need a lot more than 20-25 to make a living from licenses.

      In the royalty-free world, 20-25 tracks is not going to be much! I sell my music on several of the biggest websites, and from having about 180 tracks out there, I get about $600 a month. Quality and usability apply here just as much as in the license world.

      In the performance royalties side of things (ASCAP, BMI, PRS etc) it’s even more about how much music you have. I’ve got about 1200 tracks out in the world, (non-exclusive and exclusive deals with libraries), and I usually get a check every quarter between $7000 and $20000.

      Hope this info helps!

  16. i agree strongly that educating yourself about the music business is critical & it defintely is a business. I’m not sure about the college/night school thing as there are many ways to learn. The most successful film/TV composers i know did not learn the business side in school, they spent a tremendous amount of time on their own reseraching and learning. 🙂

    making money in film/tv music is a vastly different game than going after a recording contract with a label or becoming a hit songwriter. Similar to what was said, it’s a track numbers game– the more library tracks you have, the more you might place and it’s a slow process that takes years. You won’t make a living (or anything even close) without hundreds of tracks working for you, generally spread out over many libraries. (Spread out to keep the eggs out of one basket, pitch different markets, different venues, etc)

    Those composers making money signed a lot of different types of deals in order to get tons of tracks out there– Some exclusives, some non-ex with re-title, some non-ex without re-title, some work-for-hire (get writer’s share) etc.

    If you want to make serious money in film/TV music, it’s doubtful you have a chance if you are willing to sign only one type of contract and/or never willing to give up the publisher’s share. It’s impossible to build up the numbers game that way.

    Personally i find it contradictory to talk about learning the business and take rigid stances as to what kind of deals you will do or not do (as long as they are honest deals). Unless you are gifted beyond belief and very lucky there just wouldn’t be enough libraries out there that meet the rigid requirements such as no-retitle, no back-end given, etc.

    If there is a problem with re-titling, it’s not unfairness to the composers. People who market your music generally will get the publisher’s share as compensation, which IMO is OK. Without them, you’d have no placements. The problem, if any, is the long term impact on the industry as we’ve discussed elsewhere.

    😉

  17. I hear ya s r dhain! Great Info!

    Im an artist who loves what I do, and have a solid fanbase all over the world. But, I still work a 9 to 5. I had tried for years to look for a record deal, and had a small deal a few years back (the deal eventually fell through, since I chose not to fall victim to dishonest label actions and contracts).

    I would always continue to learn about the music business. I’ve always learned how important and lucratice publishing is, but never really tried to take full advantage of publishing until recently. My goal is to keep doing what I love to do, while making enough money to make a living.. But at the same time, I will always trust my instincts and only make deals with companies I am comfortable with. That’s why I remain vocal about the importance of understanding certain topics such as re-titling. Yes, you can still get placements and make money with those libraries that re-title, but I feel composers should at least consider the ‘fairness’ of the concept (I appreciate s r dhain for adding comments as to whether a library engages in re-titling). Just like a record deal, there is a chance (although very small imo) that you could have a hit or become a millionaire, by signing a bonus deal. But do you simply sign the deal just because its a “common” thing in the industry…or do you AT LEAST ask questions and spark a conversation. I prefer the latter, regardless of if your decision remains the same after the conversation has ended.

    In the end, you should be honest with yourself and figure out what your goals are in the music business. I also have my own independent record label, so Im loooking to use any licensing monies to help fund and promote my albums. Add that to getting a bigger piece of the pie from record sales, touring, producing, etc…and I don’t see a reason why I couldn’t make an honest and decent living from my craft.

  18. Its all out there,people. There’s a lot of £££ or $$$ in the placement business and if youre smart you’ll be able to grab a load of it. Of course, everyone’s ambitions are different , and some of us want to land a top film or tv show , whereas others are just happy to be paid. In any case, on a practical level, i’ll be a bit cheeky here and put up the end of my lecture notes from a recent session. There was no mention of music libraries in the session, but the e-portals et al comment can be taken in context if necessary :-

    If you want to make it in the music business :-

    1) DONT GIVE UP YOUR DAY JOB. At least not until youve seen a paycheck in your hands that is realistically the equivalent of a regular sustainable income. If you dont know what the last sentance means, then PLEASE READ 2)

    2) IT IS A BUSINESS, so go to college/ university/night school AND LEARN ABOUT BUSINESS. This is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if you dont know what a manager is, or CANT AFFORD TO HIRE ONE.

    3) WRITE AND RECORD RELENTLESSLY UNTIL YOU HAVE MORE THAN 50 TRACKS. Then and ONLY THEN should you spend time building amazing portals and e-technology sites.

    4) IF YOURE SERIOUS ABOUT IT, STILL HEED 1)

    5) If youre making more than youre mum and dad put together on a regular basis from music, then ignore 1) as..

    6) Congratulations, youve now got to the stage where you can SUSTAIN YOURSELF with your art. To go any further, you’ll now need A GOOD LUCKY BREAK. The law of averages should by now be on your side

    all the above (c) 2009, S R DHAIN (workflow seminar)

    😉

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