October 1, 2015 at 2:30 pm #23021
That sounds very interesting.
1) Did you have all 250 tracks in ML?
2) Have you found libraries other than AJ to be AdRev friendly, or they just haven’t had any problems arise?
3) Have you found the number of licenses sold at AJ makes up for the low license fees?
_MichaelOctober 2, 2015 at 1:38 am #23022Composer JGuest
Answers in line:
1) No, I believe I had around 70 tracks there, averaging around $150-200 a month, I think $250 was my BME. Of course it’s hard to predict the future to know whether AdRev would always make up for the loss in income from ML, but I do believe there is a bigger potential upside for AdRev.
2) AudioMicro is naturally supportive of AdRev, since they own it, but I get very low earnings there so it’s not a site I care much about.
LuckStock also has a YouTube claim help page: http://luckstock.com/pages/disputing-copyright-claim-youtube.html
I haven’t seen any other sites yet with official AdRev-POSITIVE policies, but I don’t check them all the time either. I’m sure there are more with at least help pages like LuckStock’s.
A few have e-mailed me just to ask how to release the odd claim. With a positive attitude.
3) Yes. No other site comes close in # of licenses sold, but I do earn more from Pond5 because I set prices high ($60-120). AJ is #2 earner. The low prices are annoying but selling up to 10 licenses per day is a good feeling anyway and the possibility of being a superstar with a featured track only really exists at AJ. It’s a site that boosts your ego since you normally get a handful of sales within days of uploading a new track. Unfortunately, the enormous inflow of new tracks and a mediocre search engine makes those tracks disappear after 1-2 weeks.
The new five-tier system makes things better though and I have sold a few at the highest level ($304 for 2min+ track) and about 1/10 of sales at the 2nd or 3rd level.October 2, 2015 at 3:13 am #23023VladParticipant
I am joining this conversation a little late and haven’t read the entire thread, but am I correct in stating that at AJ we are talking about selling 10 licenses per day @ $20, which likely yields $100 for the composer?
Am I the only one left standing that is holding off from selling tracks at those prices? At AS it isn’t uncommon for me to sell my top tracks for $400 (yielding $160). No this doesn’t happen every single day, but gives me a sense that my music is actually worth something.
I don’t mean to hijack this thread…just trying to see if I am the only guy left and becoming extinct since I am holding onto this idea that I won’t sell my music at those bargain basement prices if I can help it.
What do those bargain basement composers do when an outside client comes looking for one of your tracks? ‘I will do business with you for $19….’
I don’t mean to be critical of those choices for composers doing things this way, I am just trying to understand the mindset.
Thoughts?October 2, 2015 at 3:32 am #23024EdouardoParticipant
Actually reading Composer’s J success story with the low license sites does make me think. The license fee could just be about the time I place in the track.
I recently succeeded in finding a work flow that allows me to create a track in 5 hours. From the first note to a quick mastering. Of course, I am not very artistically satisfied when I do this, yet, stepping back, some of the tracks can be quite punchy and trendy. They are just not very subtle. Maybe an avenue to explore.
Basically not putting my eggs in the same basket by segmenting the sector into three avenues: 1/Excl (TV) 2/ NE and high-end RF / Adverb related (YT videos), each sector being considered as exclusive to one another.October 2, 2015 at 3:54 am #23025VladParticipant
This once again comes down to the MichaelL comment in another thread about Art vs. Commerce. I guess the business end of this dictates the necessity for a plan as outlined by Edouardo above.October 2, 2015 at 5:34 am #23026
@ComposerJ — The other question that I have because this thread was about copyright violations, is your AdRev money coming from the legit licenses that you’ve sold, or from catching infringers who’ve stolen your music?October 2, 2015 at 5:38 am #23027
No — with one exception…
There are writers who can literally crank out cues in less than a 1/2 hour, using templates. If you can do that and then sell it 100 times for $20, that’s a lot of money for 30 minutes work.October 2, 2015 at 5:48 am #23029Composer JGuest
Great to see this thread come to life again! Not sure how html is handled here but I’ll give it a try. I’ll answer Vlad’s questions first.
but am I correct in stating that at AJ we are talking about selling 10 licenses per day @ $20, which likely yields $100 for the composer?
I don’t sell 10 per day on average, but on Tuesdays and Wednesdays it is quite common. The top players sell around 30-40 licenses per day Tues-Thurs. The traffic AJ gets is quite incredible.
Right now, I’m getting around $1200-1400 a month from AJ, which is a good chunk for me, and I wouldn’t want to be without it.
I also have tracks with ASparx and have sold the big licenses (usually around $250-300) but they have become very rare. I’ve seen a steady decline this last year. My average there is something like $100 per month. I’m sure there are many who do much better, but several thousands per month? I don’t know.
I don’t know how well the site as a whole is doing, but the look of it is quite terrible as it looks like a forgotten relic from 1992. It needs a serious update.
As an answer to you wanting to understand the mindset of selling at cheaper sites:
For me, production music is about making a living. I try to be artistic and proud of my work, but I don’t use my real name as I save that for my “artist” music that is purely for listening pleasure.
I am proud over my cinematic compositions, my rock tracks and my acoustic tracks, but the corporate work I do I wouldn’t exactly play for someone I was trying to impress… That is purely to make money.
There are several ways you can sell at cheaper sites while still selling at more expensive sites.
The most obvious one is to sell different tracks. Remove your low-sellers from your other sites and try them on AJ. They might not work there either but who knows. Many composers, including #1, sell different tracks under a different name on several other sites. The top tends to concentrate mostly on AJ though since they get incredible exposure once they’re in the top lists.
I’m a big believer in NOT putting my eggs in one basket. I want my eggs spread around the world as much as possible. Because how else would you know where you’ll succeed? You can’t know.October 2, 2015 at 5:56 am #23030Composer JGuest
I also want to add that I have minimal experience with more high-end libraries, but I would love to know more.
I have music with Music Dealers and Crucial (if they’re considered high-end here?) and a few others but have seen little actual money.
I did license a track to McDonald’s for $1250 from a small agency, and that same track to Nike for around $300, but that happens maybe once a year so the monthly average still isn’t even close to the cheaper sites where I actually make a good living.
Maybe there are much better ways to sell expensive licenses in larger quantities? MichaelL/Vlad/Edouardo, maybe you know lots about this sector?October 2, 2015 at 7:17 am #23032
Art vs commerce —you get it!
There are several ways you can sell at cheaper sites while still selling at more expensive sites.
The most obvious one is to sell different tracks.
The best possible strategy!
I’m a big believer in NOT putting my eggs in one basket.
Many composers, including #1, sell different tracks under a different name on several other sites.
And that’s how the game is played. Checkmate!
If I had the time, which I do not, at the moment. I would divide my work into three, maybe four blocks.
1. RF libraries with decent license fees
2. “Micro license” Rf libraries with an eco-system approach, like AJ (under a pseudonym)
3. Backend focused TV libs, like JP.
Why is JP #3, you may ask? Because you have to wait for the money on the backend. If you can build up a base income on the front end it will help to pay your bills while you wait for backend income.
MichaelOctober 2, 2015 at 9:03 am #23035PaoloGuest
this thread keeps getting better.
I would divide my work into three, maybe four blocks.
Michael, you got me curious 🙂 Yuo mentioned you would pursue three or four blocks. What would be your fourth block?
I recently went to a PMA “meet and greet” and meet a bunch of nice folks there. Two composers I spoke with work with a high-end library (can I say Megatrax?). They said they get $1,000 upfront and backend royalties – no sync. They said the company was great to work with and they welcomed the work which fills-in their other composing gigs- which has dropped-off.October 2, 2015 at 9:27 am #23036Composer JGuest
Two composers I spoke with work with a high-end library (can I say Megatrax?). They said they get $1,000 upfront and backend royalties – no sync. They said the company was great to work with and they welcomed the work which fills-in their other composing gigs- which has dropped-off.
So this would be an exclusive library where you get $1,000 for each submission right when you submit? Can you submit a track per day or is there a limit?
I have limited experience with PRO royalties, is there a typical sum over 5 years? I have only seen pretty meaningless royalties so far…
Knowing what you get is great in one way, but I kind of like the idea that a track can take off and keep making money for years. I have done other work where I first got paid on clicks alone, and later had the contract changed to get money upfront (good money). I liked working for clicks as that was more exciting and it didn’t feel I was working for the money.
My most profitable library track has earned me around $13,500 to date (which means licensed for around $28,000), and it continues to sell every week, usually giving me $3-400 a month. This is all from the cheaper sites + AdRev (AdRev is $360 out of the 13,5k).
Of course, most tracks earn much less than this, but I like the idea of a track taking off and getting a life of its own, many years after I made it.October 2, 2015 at 9:28 am #23037Art MunsonKeymaster
Thanks Composer J you got me to thinking about exploring some new avenues.
After a number of years in the RF market I’m still waiting for that “base income”. For me, P5 is the only library that consistently sells well and yes I listen to the best sellers and try to write to the market. Still, my best sellers are not the mainstream of P5.
After all of these years backend monies still accounts for 75% of my music income.
BTW, I may spin this hi-jacked thread off to a new topic. 🙂October 2, 2015 at 9:34 am #23038
The 4th block would be high-end WFH / PMA libraries. I’ve done WFH before (years actually). I’m trying different things now to create other revenue streams. If, and when, I have the time, as well as a base of other income, I’d gladly pursue that again.
MichaelOctober 2, 2015 at 10:09 am #23040
This is why I always say that everyone one is coming from a different place. I already had significant backend income from TV (not from libraries), so looked to RF to branch out with what I’ll call the less than “prime time” part of my catalog — more geared toward documentaries and corporate clients.
My path is personal, based on what I’ve already done, my existing catalog, and what interests me. At the moment, TV cues don’t really interest me.