First foray into trailer music, would love some feedback!

[mscottweber]

Coming mainly from a rock/pop background, I’ve been working hard on honing my cinematic orchestral skills over the past year or so. This is my first epic orchestral trailer cue (OK, not REALLY my first, but the first that I’ve felt might be good enough) and I would love some feedback on it. Does the mix/master sound ok? Does it follow the proper structure closely enough? Is it sonically/compositionally interesting? Does it sound like it could potentially be successful in this highly competitive market? etc? Feel free to be as blunt and harsh as you want, I can take it. And thanks so much!

https://soundcloud.com/michaelwebermusic-1/visceral-contention

Libraries used include Spitfire’s Albion, Soundiron’s Olympus Elements and Apocalypse Percussion Elements, Heaviocity’s Damage, as well as some other odds and ends.

[Sean]

You and I are on a similar path, except I decided to work on
I really like this cue a lot. In particular the beginning that has that cool growling sound in conjunction with the strings. The other part I especially like is the change at :59.

This may just be personal taste. I thought the ostinato strings sound very warm but could sound larger for a trailer cue. Not necessarily louder but maybe more layers and space.

As far as the structure, you’ll need one of our forum experts on trailer music to answer that part. I must admit so far I haven’t been able to do it effectively!

[Sean]

Please start with the second line on my previous post! I had a thought and forgot to delete it:)

[bradymusico]

You have some great melodic ideas and I think the form is there, for sure.

I think the mix is what needs attention. It sounds like you need to spend time really tightening up the low end so that you have more headroom for the rest of the mix to pop out (especially in the 3rd “act). Try some parallel comp. on those perc tracks (if you haven’t already) and ALSO side chain compression is super important for that low end so that those booms and braams can share the same space. You might also consider using a mid/side EQ to cut the side freq below 115-130 Hz to try to bring more clarity to the low end. Also, I think that you are missing a lot of the sparkle/magic high end of the strings and mix in general. Don’t be too heavy handed on the compression and automate where you need to so that it’s not applied across the board. Hope that helps.

Spot on ideas overall IMO! Great work!! 🙂

[mscottweber]

First off, I want to appologize to Art and all for not posting this in the “Critique” forum. I was actually looking for that particular forum but I couldn’t find it at the time; I must have been blind because its clearly there…

@Sean: Thanks for listening, and for the kind words! I agree on the ostinato strings. I like how fragile they sound in the beginning of the middle section, but everywhere else they lack a certain amount of bite.

@bradymusico: Thanks for listening as well, and thanks for the tips on the mix! When you’ve worked on a track for a long time it gets hard to take a step back and hear it objectively. I’ll have to use those techniques, especially the sidechain compression, to clear up the low end for sure. And I agree on the string not being sparkly enough. I used Spitfire’s Albion, and while those strings are incredibly lush and beautiful, sparkly they most certainly aren’t. In the past I’ve always brought in too much of the noise floor inherent to the samples when I’ve tried to add brightness to them via EQ, but maybe brightening up the whole mix would work better? Maybe I need different strings for trailer use…

[bradymusico]

I used Spitfire’s Albion, and while those strings are incredibly lush and beautiful, sparkly they most certainly aren’t. In the past I’ve always brought in too much of the noise floor inherent to the samples when I’ve tried to add brightness to them via EQ, but maybe brightening up the whole mix would work better? Maybe I need different strings for trailer use…

I would start by playing with the full mix…could give some bite to some of the other things you have going on. I have a bunch of Spitfire’s stuff and LOVE them for certain projects but yeah, you may consider getting something with more of an edge, particularly if you are really going to get into that genre. I have mixed LASS and Albion with some pretty decent results. I should mention that there are plenty of others around here more qualified to speak on behalf of the trailer market (Mark Petrie!). Didn’t mean to come off like I knew all of “the ropes” by any means but I did hear room to improve on the things I mentioned mix wise. Good luck!! – B

[Rob (Cruciform)]

Hi,

My 2c in AUD.

The composition is fine. I feel the production needs more ‘oomph’. It never really takes off.

You could try using saturation/distortion on the strings to make them bite some more. Or double the strings with synths. The drums are really on a single level, try layering up different grooves slowly to build a sense of accelerating action. The choir could use a sense of bigger space, actually all the instruments could, but the choir is particularly noticeable.

Having said that, it’s way better than my first attempt at the genre!

[Mark_Petrie]

Hi Michael,

I have a few thoughts to add –

I really like that strings motif!

Mix wise it’s not that far off. I think it’s just a matter of more layering, injecting ‘steroids’ into each element. Make the drums hit harder on downbeats, more hi end perc, make the strings sound fuller and further away. To give you an idea, I usually have about 20 – 30 perc tracks in any given trailer track, and blend four or five strings libraries.

You should decide if this track is going to be ‘hybrid’ or not, and truly own that sound. Right now there are a few synths sprinkled here and there. They’re noticeable enough to make the track non-traditional (and not just acting as sonic glue for orchestral elements to sound bigger), but not dominant enough yet to make the track an edgy, modern hybrid blend of synths and traditional instruments.

I think your 2nd act needs to be a lot bigger, and your 3rd act / finale needs to be ridiculous. Right now it’s a bit too tame for trailers. As is, it’d be great for TV. That’s not meant as a slight – you’ll hear amazing music on reality shows today, the standard keeps getting higher and higher (like in trailers).

Try to avoid modulation unless it makes a huge difference to the track (don’t rely on it for adding energy, instead find other ways to achieve that). Editors like to be able to chop up the music, so it’s important the key stays the same, or at least complimentary throughout (relative minor / major is ok).

Try to find one or two key ideas (hooks, rhythmic, sonic or melodic) that your entire piece builds from. You’ve got a great start with that string motif, but I’d really go nuts building on top of it in your 2nd and 3rd acts.

This is how I think of the typical trailer layout: (rules which are often broken)

1st act – mysterious, brooding, occasional hits ok
SUDDEN BREAK or RAMP UP
2nd act – energy, using same ideas from opening if possible, building bigger and bigger with every repeat of the 8 bar phrase
SUDDEN BREAK, HUGE RISE
3rd act – massive energy leading to a finale
Finale – ridiculous ending, over-the-top repetition of hits etc – realm of the ridiculous
SHORT BREAK FOR REVERB TAIL
Outro, for ‘coming soon’ – a long fading held note or a gradually fading soft recap of the beginning

Hope that helps.

[bradymusico]

1st act – mysterious, brooding, occasional hits ok
SUDDEN BREAK or RAMP UP
2nd act – energy, using same ideas from opening if possible, building bigger and bigger with every repeat of the 8 bar phrase
SUDDEN BREAK, HUGE RISE
3rd act – massive energy leading to a finale
Finale – ridiculous ending, over-the-top repetition of hits etc – realm of the ridiculous
SHORT BREAK FOR REVERB TAIL
Outro, for ‘coming soon’ – a long fading held note or a gradually fading soft recap of the beginning

Straight from an EXPERT. Thanks for chiming in on this Mark. We can all learn something from your approach! 🙂 – B

[Sean]

Straight from an EXPERT.

Definitely! and Rob too. Thanks for being generous with your experience
and knowledge.

[mscottweber]

Thanks so much for the feedback!

@Rob – Using distortion/saturation on the strings is a great idea to thicken and brighten them up, and definitely NOT something I would have thought of. Thanks! Regarding the larger sense of space on the choir etc, do you mean a more careful use of reverb to help “place” them in the soundstage with everything else? Or do you simply mean MORE verb to make ’em bigger? Maybe those options are one and the same?

@Mark – That is positively a GOLDMINE of information, much more than I ever expected from this thread! Thanks! I hear you on the traditional orchestral vs modern hybrid thing. Apart from the braams, the rest of the synth stuff was thrown in as an afterthought. I’m glad that it’s good enough for TV though, ha ha!

[Author]

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