Have I Been Cheated Out Of Money?!?

[ChuckMott]

So let me see if I get this learning curve straight here: Composers generally start off starry eyed and it is the be all and end all to get your music placed on t.v., You write for a while (quite a awhile, depending on the composer , could be years) and eventually, you hope, you begin getting placements, which even on reality tv/cable /whatever, is to a relative newcomer like hitting the (artistic) jackpot. You start getting more placements , and this goes on for a number of months/years, before you start doing the math and saying I’ve spent x number of hours/months/years writing and uploading and the numbers are not what you hoped they’d be. You start whittling down the libraries you submit to to the ones that are really working for you placement and money wise, and start seeking out more exclusives and other libraries preferably ones that pay you upfront in hopes for a bigger payday. Backend is not necessary the payoff one would hope for. I guess stye one thing I am missing is how do composers balance quantity with quality. Seems quality is the defining factor. Quantity helps, but without the focus on quality you may be grasping at straws and getting involvement in libraries that only deal with backend. There is nothing wrong with this, but the learning curve seems to come back to “I want to write great quality tracks, even if this means writing fewer of them” and hope instead to go for upfront money and better placements. Nothing wrong with any of the above, just seems to be part of the learning curve. Please comment, I am merely paraphrasing/summing up what I think I see as a theme here amongst composers who have been doing this awhile. If I am makin gnome incorrect assumptions, please feel free to correct these mistaken assumptions. In a perfect world, a composer is able to produce quality tracks daily in order to thrive opt even survive in this biz. Good discussion , very interesting. Thanks DI for starting it.

[Barry]

@Michael
I write a fair bit of “EDM” (whatever that is, it’s a very american term..) and there are ‘evergreen’ dance tracks just like any other genre. If your writing a style (whatever it maybe) that relys heavily on production ‘tricks’ ie distorted bass wub wub dubstep then yes if has a short shelf life. But if you combine the wub wub with some nice melodic raggae/dub instrumentation then suddenly the track has more appeal and shelf life. Examples who have done it well in the past are Moby, fatboyslim, chemical brothers, massive attack yarda yarda. That 90’s sound that still going strong. I have EDM tracks from 13 years ago still making good coin (fatboyslim style).
I suppose what it comes down to it, it’s quality. No matter genre you are in… Everything gets old, but some quicker than others.
@DI
Good luck with the upfront coin.. I work 90% with boutique exclusives and that most i have got is £1 upfront .. But always 50/50 of all revenue. So i get several $K per quarter of sync royalities.. Not upfront but better than anything i have got via non ex. And i also get sync fees for cable shows as the exculsives (i work with) don’t do the backend blanket dance.

[MichaelL]

@Barry.. Hi.

I knew the minute that I singled out “EDM” someone would respond. I once said that you need to be over 6 feet tall to play professional basketball, and someone immediately named the .01% of NBA players that are under 6 feet tall.

If I had said that someone who only wrote cues in the style of Duran Duran, 30 years ago, or 70’s disco, was probably looking for work today, maybe you would have gotten the point.

Examples who have done it well in the past are Moby, fatboyslim, chemical brothers, massive attack yarda yarda. That 90?s sound that still going strong.

I am familiar with those artists, and therein lies a critical difference. Artists tend to have a fan base that sticks with them, even when others move on, and advertisers, etc., find their work less relevant.

Think of what indie bands were popular 5 years ago. Think of who’s popular now. Mumford & Sons? I just got an email from CDbaby, in which that advised writers not to copy the Mumford & Sons sound because people are already getting “tired” of all the clones.

But…what I’m talking about is production music.

But if you combine the wub wub with some nice melodic raggae/dub instrumentation then suddenly the track has more appeal and shelf life.

You stumbled upon the secret to creating production music versions of a genre, which is why purists will say “that’s not real electronica.”
Combining genres and instrumentation blurs the “best when used by date.”

Everything gets old, but some quicker than others.

My point exactly. So, if you’re in this for the long run it helps to not be a “one trick pony.”

Caveat: None of this applies to artists who are trying to license their songs, who are not actually interested in production music, but think licensing will help them get discovered.
That’s another ballgame altogether.

[MichaelL]

Composers generally start off starry eyed and it is the be all and end all to get your music placed on t.v.,

I’d love to know who started that rumor. 😀

But, back to the original question…there is a simple answer: People will succeed to the degree that their musical skill-set, business acumen, and hard work carry them.

[Barry]

@Michael
Yes I agree with what you are saying and i am talking about Production Music as well. What i am saying is production music written in the style of the artist I mentioned has a long shelf life for EDM.
I know what you are saying as in the secret to a production music track but to be honest what i am finding now is libs don’t want that beige sound. There is a tonne of it out there it’s hard for them to compete. RF land loves that generic non genuine sound though..
Funnily enough if those 70’s disco and Duran Duran composers held in there they would make a good living now as both 80’s pop and daft punkish disco are massive in the EDM scene now (also with advertisers). I just finished a prod music album full of 80’s synth pop melodies.. But i know what you mean, genre’s come and go in popularity. A prod composer needs to be flexible.
There is a big market for ‘trendy’ music and considering you have to continually write to keep the royalties flowing reasonably steady these days i don’t see the problem writing what the market demands. (cavet- must have a good lib that gets your tracks placed asap) In fact i would go as far as saying it might be one of the very few ways to still make a good living in this game.

[MichaelL]

RF land loves that generic non genuine sound though..

They have a lot of business / corporate clients, for whom you sometimes you need to smooth the edges. They don’t want dub. They want “dub-like.”

Funnily enough if those 70?s disco and Duran Duran composers held in there they would make a good living now as both 80?s pop and daft punkish disco are massive in the EDM scene now (also with advertisers). I just finished a prod music album full of 80?s synth pop melodies..

I’ve never thrown anything away. I’m about to remaster some “retro” cues, recorded 30 years ago with top players. Trends come and go, but eventually they have life as “retro.”

Edit: sometimes reality / cable goes for non-genuine genre mixing, e.g. “hick-hop”….think hip-hop with Dobro and slide guitar…

[Desire_Inspires]

I know what you are saying as in the secret to a production music track but to be honest what i am finding now is libs don’t want that beige sound.

Interesting. I do hear a good deal of modern music in music libraries. As a matter of fact, I get several requests from different companies asking for soundalikes to songs that are in the Top 40. Some libraries actually state that they are not the typical stock music companies.

[Barry]

@DI,
Yep the libs i work for even make the claim their catologue “doesn’t sound like production music”…
The good coin is in edgy/indie-ish catchy pop electronica where advertisers can’t afford a particular artist but still want something that sounds fresh. Not a sound a like or even similiar just something that brands their product or show differently than the standard biege track offerings. And this all falls under the catagory of ‘quality’. To produce an edgy track that is both useful and has some shelf life.

[MichaelL]

Yep the libs i work for even make the claim their catologue “doesn’t sound like production music”…

I call those the “anti-library” libraries. 😀

[Desire_Inspires]

I call those the “anti-library” libraries. 😀

That sounds extreme. 😉

[ro5er]

The good coin is in edgy/indie-ish catchy pop electronica where advertisers can’t afford a particular artist but still want something that sounds fresh. Not a sound a like or even similiar just something that brands their product or show differently than the standard biege track offerings. And this all falls under the catagory of ‘quality’. To produce an edgy track that is both useful and has some shelf life.

Writing fresh and original yet mainstream/catchy material is not easy to pull off… at least for me it’s not:-)

@Barry: Is it possible to reach you with a PM?

[Barry]

@ro5er,
No PM sorry, my subscription has lapsed a while ago. Not keen on putting email on a public forum.. If you have soundcloud/website etc i can get you through there.

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