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Hey Guys,
I have searched and saw similar posts but there were no specifics that I could see in detail.
I have a new Lib relationship which wants alt mixes of my tracks. I know it’s very easy to mute tracks for inst versions, melody, drums and bass, etc but what I think will take the most time is the 30 second versions.
How do you fellows do the alts? Some guys just paste the song a few times over original track timeline and cut out measures until they fit the requred time while others take the Master Wav. file and chop out their stingers and bumbers. I can see this being an easy way for the 15 second ending and sting out but it seems like you would have to really fudge around with the original session for the 30 sec.
Some awesome people have been helping me. Just want to see if there are any other methods or suggestions.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
We do it with final mixed basic stems, so you can do some band-aid editing if necessary like muting or adding a cymbal swell. It’s an art form so I like to outsource the editing as much as possible to someone much better at it than myself 🙂
I always do an additional 30 sec and 60 sec version. Sometimes also versions with a different instrumentation.
My workflow is to first finish the main version and mix a master version in Logic. Then I use Logic’s excellent “alternatives” feature (MOTU DP has a similar thing, I’ve heard – and probably many other DAWs). So I start each “alternative” with the full main version mix, to keep the mastered sound, while moving parts around in the arrangement. Sometimes I might even change the tempo here and there to be able to keep musical material that makes sense while still hitting the exact track duration. A really good kick-off I’ve found is to use Logic’s Cycle set to the new track length and then I simply drag it around to see where I have some good musical parts to build on for the new version. I appreciate doing this “remix work” on the full production, rather than on mastered audio files or stems.
I use the final full mix and sometimes bed mix to create my alt mixes. Doesn’t take me more than an hour to do loop, sting, 15, 30 and 60. It does take practice though but it works for me and I sell quite a number of them on RF sites.
Same here, I use the final stereo mix. Art is quite right, it takes practice and I will add you need to know your tools well. A good ear is equally as important!
So you literally open a session with your mastered Wav file and slice it up to form what you want?
I work in Sonar on a PC so the nomenclature can get tricky. In Sonar I work in a Project file that contains the timeline and all the elements of a piece of music, midi, audio, VSTs, efx, BPM, markers, etc.
After I have rendered my mix to a wav file. I save the project file to a new name. If the cue was titled CUE1 I will re-save the project file to a new title, CUE1-EDITS. Now I have two project files CUE1 and CUE1-EDITS. In the CUE1-EDITS file I delete everything and make sure the master buss has no effects and level is back to 0. I’m now left with the BPM and the markers.
I now reload the final mix and a bed mix into the CUE1-EDITS file making sure it loads in exactly at your first marker (you do have to make sure you have a precise start marker as well as markers throughout your piece defining the different sections of your cue, when you created your cue). On the time line I create markers for 14.5, 29.5 and 59.5 seconds. That’s where my last beat should go for each version. I let them ring out a 1 to 1 1/2 seconds after that.
I copy the full mix to 3 different tracks. From there I can can cut and paste what ever elements I need (some I may pull from the bed mix) to assemble a version. I always start the new version on beat 1 of the project file so when the final beat hits on the 1/2 second, before the end, your timing will be accurate. I then mute all the other tracks and render the track I’ve just edited.
One final thing. You have to be open to the fact the finished result will not be exactly how you wrote it but musically, to fresh ears, it would be acceptable.
I really should do a video of this!
One other thing. In my original Project file (CUE1) I start my cues at 2 bars in so when you load in your final mix to the CUE1-EDITS file you are starting 2 bars in. It’s easier to calculate the times starting from bar 1 but if you slide the whole mix to the left at bar 1 your section markers will be off (but not the 14.5, 29.5 and 59.5 second markers). So you can slide to bar 1 and start cutting from there and rely on looking at the wave form. I have gotten so I can figure the time pretty close by starting 2 bars in. I will then slide the finished version to bar 1 and tweak the time from there.
So you literally open a session with your mastered Wav file and slice it up to form what you want?
Yes, I open my mastered wav file into a two track editor (Sound Forge) and create from there. I can easily see timings for highlighted audio. SF shows exact time for where the cursor starts, where it ends and the total timing for a highlighted section. So I use that in combination with SF’s playlist/cutlist features. The playlist feature allows you to line up highlighted sections of the tune and play them in any order with any number of repeats. The cutlist feature will play a song skipping highlighted sections. There are also two time-stretch tools. I won’t use time stretch on the entire song, but will occasionally use it on just a final hit to pinpoint a timing. So using my ears and different tools it isn’t too difficult to come up with the timing edits.
I do it in my mastering stage. Have a template with tracks for full mix, no lead, bed, DnB, 30sec, bumper, stinger, loop A, loop B
Sometimes the 30 sec can be difficult. I will often use pieces of DnB and/or No Lead etc to put together those edits.
I’ve gotten pretty efficient with it.
Occasionally I will need to go back and make a “slice and dice” mix that has cymbals and other long tail instruments mutedArt, in your mix do you do any “mastering”, therefore your rendered mix incorporates that? Or do you do your edits first, then run them all through the same mastering/louder process (using the same setting for all)?
Another question regarding stems & mastering if the library requests stems:
(By stems I’m referring to submixes of drums, synths, etc. The word “stems” on the internet seems to also refer to individual tracks):
If the final mix they have been given has some sort of [self] mastering, then what is done about the stems? Since each stem can’t be run through the same mastering fx, the stems won’t sound the same as the “mastered” full mix that the editor/library already has received.
Thank you!
Art, in your mix do you do any “mastering”, therefore your rendered mix incorporates that? Or do you do your edits first, then run them all through the same mastering/louder process (using the same setting for all)?
I edit the final mastered mix and yes it’s a second pass to re-render but there is no extra processing as I remove all efx off of the stereo buss.
If the final mix they have been given has some sort of [self] mastering, then what is done about the stems?
I would render stems without any mastering. I EQ each instrument before the stereo buss so, if I render individual tracks, I don’t have to do much in the way of EQ in the stereo buss. Others may have a better way.
Thank you Art! So your mastered mix will sound different than the [non-mastered] individual tracks…the libraries are OK with that, yes? In other words, if you send them stems, do they ever complain “this doesn’t sound like the [orig] track we got”?
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