The "whitey" Email (Composers take note!)

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  • #13411
    Grant Tregellas
    Participant

    @More Advice: Don’t worry, sorry for the misunderstanding. Believe me, the last thing I would want to hear is someone referring to my work in the music biz as “not really work”. I would also get a bit p****d off 🙂

    Just to be clear, I’ve been in the music biz for 18 years. Every bit of money I’ve earned has been through music. Its my job. But some people just dont “get it”. And I’ve been on the receiving end of too many “oh, at least you love what you do” condescending type remarks. As if its just some little hobby and I live in a dream land.

    Its not. Its damn hard work.

    For the record, I still do make about 90% of my income through live playing. The licensing and library work is a relatively recent thing for me that I hope to grow in the future. But playing gigs for me is my job. I love being on stage and playing, but I aint doing it for charity, believe me. Its what pays my bills.

    Writing and composing and recording etc is hard work as well, lots of hours. I just think that some people think these compositions just appear out of thin air and magically get recorded somehow.

    Anyhow, as far as the actual point of the original article, here is my take on it. Just say no.

    People who value the work of a composer will be willing to pay and not insult you will free or low-ball offers. You do actually find people like that. Its the people who dont “get it” that send emails asking you to work for free. Just tell them to get lost. Why would you even want to work for someone like that?

    Let me give a quick example from my world of live playing that may relate to this: I do between 150-200 gigs a years. Im not famous or anything, just a working musician. Yet despite this, about a month ago someone comes up to me and says “hey we have this venue, come and play for exposure”. Now, how do you answer that without sound like an arrogant (insert your own word)? Thats what I mean by someone who doesn’t “get it”. Thats the kind of person that emails you and asks you to pitch a track for free. So I just said no.

    And then waited for someone else who does respect what I do to call. I then worked for them for the fee I normally charge. And everyone is happy.

    P.S I have actually lived in hotels and planes for about 5 years as a touring musician. Yip, it sucks big time. You actually forgot to include: Flights so early that you have to leave the hotel before they start serving breakfast; 4 hours soundchecks; dodgy backline gear onstage; delayed flights; queuing for hours to get a VISA, the airline losing your gear; or your clothes; having to share hotel rooms with the drummer!!

    #13413
    woodsdenis
    Participant
    #13414
    More Advice
    Guest

    Grant, I have respect for everything you are doing and live gigging is a bitch and you deserve a raise!

    And lets not forget about purchases of software, mics, instruments, desks, chairs, computers, attending networking events, hanging around here, etc. etc….it’s BUSINESS!…just like any other business, it’s work.

    Final thought: Everyone needs music because without it all TV shows and Films and spots and live sporting events, etc etc….would be nothing and mean nothing. Yes,music does not appear out of thin air and it requires years and years of hard work and study and experience.

    It’s the same effort as becoming any professional, lawyer, doctor, teacher, plumber, carpenter (whom I have a great deal of respect for)…architech? gee maybe they should design homes and buildings on spec and for free…don’t they love what they do? LOL…

    #13415
    Grant Tregellas
    Participant

    Ha ha. “I deserve a raise” I think we all do. I’ll drink to that

    #13416
    Desire_Inspires
    Participant

    The business is tough. But it is a choice. There are ways to make money from music besides music licensing. MLR is a perfect example!

    I am not sure how much income Art makes from this site. But he put in the work to create this site and now is able to charge a subscription for certain information. He used technology to his advantage.

    With the knowledge and experience some of you guys possess, I see no reason why young people giving away free music even music concerns you. I know that if I had what some of you had, I would be making a lot of money and have no concerns.

    No more complaining guys. This is your profession. Make it work for you! You are only preaching to the choir by getting upset and complaining here. The general public is not taking notice or getting involved in this discussion.

    I wish everyone the best.

    #13429
    BIGG ROME
    Guest

    Good Job DI!

    #13432
    More Advice
    Guest

    With the knowledge and experience some of you guys possess, I see no reason why young people giving away free music even music concerns you.

    If you have a tsunami of people giving away music for free, the entire population is going to believe, and expect eventually, that a music file is free. This also applies to the tsunami of “music producers” who found an entry in the market via internet submission pipelines. They shoveled millions of pounds of poorly produced music with no relevant value to libraries/ publishers. It’s a major distraction and cost because it all has to get listened to. So Publishers lose time and money too. With so much free content being desperately thrown around and ignorance being rampant when it comes to being able to understand publishing contracts, one has to conclude that young people have systematically destroyed, devalued, and basically rendered songwriting and creating albums a worthless endeavor for 99.9%. It only works for those who have a means to perform their music live and make money off ticket and T shirt sales. I hope this explains your confusion DI. The mind set of buyers also changed because they used to seek professional trained and competent composers to provide a service of custom scoring a show/ film/ or spot, but this is now done by “searching” through the millions of pounds of free music and synch fees get more and more eliminated each year.

    I know that if I had what some of you had, I would be making a lot of money and have no concerns

    Please elaborate on this DI…I’d love to hear about your business strategy “if you had what we had”…I am not being confrontational or sarcastic, I am curious to hear your response. I assume you think, “If only I had that pro studio with all the best mics, a grand piano, drum set, guitars, basses, the best software, etc. etc.?

    What would you do to make the big bucks?

    Also, your comment which has been stated a few times “making music is a choice” is a bit numb. Yeah, for young new entrants, they really need to take a good look at what they are getting into before they attempt to dive into a music career as opposed to becoming a computer scientist or biochemical engineer – fields where you would have lots of job security and make good money, but for those of us who started doing this and have done this for 20 years, the argument of “it’s your choice” is off the table because it’s what we do and what we have always done. It’s been “our job”. We don’t necessarily have the option of saying “I’m out of this business to now become a doctor or lawyer or chemical engineer.”

    .

    #13434
    Desire_Inspires
    Participant

    Thanks Bigg Rome.

    #13435
    BIGG ROME
    Guest

    Going against the old way of thinking always lead to opposition at first, then eventually they have no choice but to confirm or be pushed aside.

    This the 21st century.

    #13436
    More Advice
    Guest

    and…? Still waiting for that great advice you may have to provide.

    …and no, I am not “stuck in the old way” guys…But free is still free, and free is no income. So what is your point?

    You can chiume in too, Bigg Rome…

    #13437
    Desire_Inspires
    Participant

    Going against the old way of thinking always lead to opposition at first, then eventually they have no choice but to confirm or be pushed aside.

    This the 21st century.

    Exactly!

    We cannot turn back the hands of time. We can only adapt to the current situation and work for improvement. Analog solutions will not work in a digital world. I am glad someone understands! 🙂

    I am done arguing about it all. Everyone has their own path to journey down. I wish all the best.

    #13438
    The Dude
    Guest

    This is like a middle school streetballer giving advice to Kobe.

    #13439
    Steve Ballard
    Guest

    Desire Inspires and BIGG ROME.

    Going against the old way of thinking always lead to opposition at first, then eventually they have no choice but to confirm or be pushed aside.

    Do you two honestly believe that individuals that have been in the music business for 15-30 years are set in “old ways” (whatever your definition of that is) and do not adapt to the business? How do you think they have stayed and been successful all of those years? Certainly by not adapting or overcoming obstacles. Have you ever considered whom it is that is making the new innovations and way of doing things come from? It is those same people that have been in the business for all those years. In essence, you two are saying that no one here knows what they are talking about by saying that people giving away their work in mass for free is not hurting the business that we are in and if we don’t like it then we can all just go find something else to do. Your arguments are flawed and naive. That type of laissez-faire practice will get you killed in this business.

    With the knowledge and experience some of you guys possess, I see no reason why young people giving away free music even music concerns you.

    Many of us here are not making booku bucks and can not afford to not worry about the people that are giving away their music. Why? Because that is in direct competition with me trying to get equal pay for equal work. This is a business not a contest. Now I have to fight those individuals andproduction music libraries. If it’s not effecting you two then why worry about it, right? The thing about that is, it is effecting you and you don’t realize it.

    There are ways to make money from music besides music licensing. MLR is a perfect example!

    Do you honestly believe that Art started this site as a way to make money? I know for a fact that isn’t why Art started this site. Art started this site as a service to composers and musical artists. It started out as a free service. Art’s time is valuable, his job is not one of running a blog. It cost him his time and money to keep this site up and running. He started charging a monthly/yearly fee in order to keep this site going and to pay for the time he spends updating and monitoring this site. I’m pretty sure Art and his wife aren’t kicked back in the Jacuzzi sipping Margaritas and sharing tales of all the money they make on Music Library Report, instead of being in their studio working. (Your not are you Art?)

    #13440
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    I’m pretty sure Art and his wife aren’t kicked back in the Jacuzzi sipping Margaritas and sharing tales of all the money they make on Music Library Report, instead of being in their studio working. (Your not are you Art?)

    LOL, I wish!

    #13441
    MichaelL
    Participant

    @More Advice, et al…I can’t believe that you even bothered to respond to DI and Bigg Rome.

    I know that if I had what some of you had, I would be making a lot of money and have no concerns.

    Not likely. I’m not going to get into an adolescent p*ssing match. But, if you think gear/equipment/software etc., is what makes the difference between successful and unsuccessful writers, you’re in for a rude awakening. There’s an old saying, “it’s the carpenter, not the tools.”

    And Bigg Rome, as far as this “old ways/ new ways” 21st century song and dance goes, total F’ing nonsense. Who do you think invented the “new” ways in the first place?…seriously.

    Steve Ballard is absolutely right. Those of us who have been doing this for any length of time (35 years for me) and have survived and succeeded, have done so by adapting, changing and finding new ways of doing business. For example…I’ve started three publishing companies in the last two years for one for television shows, and two for internet licensing. I’m about to market the TV library online. I’m also about to a release another product I’ve been developing for two years.

    So while you’re spouting off about new ways / 21st century blah blah blah, some of us stuck in our supposedly “old” ways are forging new paths.

    So really, get over it.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 32 total)
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