Third party samples or loops….public domain

[jimandroz7]

I have a question.  I use Apple loops and manipulate them adding live music, etc. If someone asks me:  Are there third party samples or loops that are not my own,  aren’t the apple loops in public domain and therefore I can freely say…”no” and avoid copyright infringement?

Thanks for you insight.

JimandRoz

[Mark Lewis]

Apple Loops are not in public domain. They are owned by Apple and distributed to be used royalty free, but they still own them. Public domain is a completely different and often misunderstood beast.

[Rosalind Richards]

Thanks!  This is very helpful.  So I assume then that the Apple jam packs are also

royalty-free and not considered third party samples?

 

 

[Mark_Petrie]

If a library (or any other client) is asking you that question, they’re most likely just checking to make sure you had the legal right to use the loops and samples. They don’t want to get stung like Vanilla Ice and The Verve did 🙂

[jimandroz7]

Thank you that’s very helpful!

roz

[MichaelL]

Public domain is a completely different and often misunderstood beast.

That’s a very accurate statement…to put it mildly. When, and or if, intellectual property enters the “Public Domain” varies greatly, depending upon the type of intellectual property, and the country of origin. Patents can last for 14-20 years, depending on what the patent is for. Trademarks can last forever. Copyrights, which is what composers are most interested in vary. In some countries it is based upon when the work was created and.or published. In other countries, it is based upon when the last living creator of the work died.

For example in the US, works created prior to 1923, are generally PD. However, in countries that go by life of the author plus 70, or more years, it is possible that someone could have composed a work in 1923, but didn’t die until 1953, in which case the work wouldn’t be PD until 2023.

In the case of Apple Loops, you receive a license to use the product. One concern with 3rd party loops and samples, is that libraries don’t want you lifting samples of copyrighted works OR recordings. Remember, even if a composition has passed into the public domain, the sound recording will likely have a copyright in force. So even though Beethoven’s 5th is in the public domain, a recording of it most likely is not.

Cheers,

MichaelL

[TheOne]

MichaelL, thanks for clearing the PD thing out, but I have one more question if you dont mind 🙂

 

If I use PD composition and create a new recording myself,  can I licence it to libraries or anyone else? and if so, 1: Do I need to get permission from someone?

2: When I register the work at BMI, can I take the full writer share, part of it, or none? Because I see BMI have a “writer” in their database named: PD aka Public Domain.

 

Thanks a lot!!

 

 

[Mark Lewis]

@TheOne

Good questions. Here is my understanding of the PD situation

In regards to your first question, yes you can make your own version of public domain music and distribute it as your own via music libraries. Composers are constantly doing this and our library has tons of re-worked PD material in it. You would not need to get permission because there is nobody to get permission from, they’re most likely dead 🙂
You just need to be absolutely sure that the piece is actually in the public domain.

In regards to your 2nd question I am not sure about BMI ASCAP filings but my understanding of it is that since you did not write Beethoven’s 5th you cannot claim to have written it. I believe you would be the ‘arranger’ of an existing PD work.

MichaelL might be able to comment on the specifics of PROs and PD works though.
-Mark

[MichaelL]

@TheOne…I would ask your PRO. It may be that you are considered the “arranger” of the re-workd PD composition (which may affect the rate at which you get paid). Like original compositions, you can, and should, copyright your arrangements of PD works.

Although Beethoven and others are now “de-composing” 😆 you still need to be careful. Many Christmas carols, although written more than 100 years ago, have been subsequently arranged by others and published in church hymnals. I’ve heard numerous Christmas carols in libraries that were lifted straight out of hymnals, without any modification. Taking “Hark the Herald,” for example, from a church hymnal, then merely recording it on a toy piano, instead of with a choir, does not constitute a new arrangement, if you don’t re-harmonize, or modify the work in some way. Depending upon when the arrangement in the hymnal was completed / copywrittten and/or published, it may not be in the public domain, and the person merely recording the hymnal version of a carol with different instrumentation is infringing.

Thoroughly research the PD status of the underlying work AND subsequent arrangements. Sometimes the most familiar version of a work is the subsequently arranged version.

Cheers,

MichaelL

 

[woodsdenis]

@TheOne

A UK/Ireland variant is of this is called Trad Arr. Similarly if you take a PD folk/traditional tune and make a unique arrangement of it you register with your PRO as Trad  Arr (Traditional arrangement). You are entitled to the full writers share. Unique is an opinion of course, How many different ways are there of singing “Greensleeves” for example, that is of course you don’t  copy an existing arrangement that was a significant departure from the original.

MichaelL do you have Trad Arr in the States ?

[Rosalind Richards]

Forgetting the Public Domain issue for a moment….How much is enough legally to required to change using pre-recorded royalty free loops and samples?  I combine live instruments using loops and manipulate the pitches in the pre-recorded loops however, where is the line that goes into possible copyright issues?  On the extreme end theoretically if you have a live instrument over pre-recorded midi loops with no changes or small changes to pitches on the loop, is this infringement. I don’t do this but I am trying to understand what constitutes infringement.  I realize the example given above is in bad taste.  Just trying to get the extreme parameters of the question. Thanks

 

 

[woodsdenis]

@Rosalind

I will use Logic and Apple loops as an example, the same basically applies for any loop/sample library (sort of)

When purchasing Logic and the contained Apple loops your are given permission to use them in any way in your own compositions without a further royalty payment, you may modify them in this context (Within a composition!!!!). You may NOT modify them only and then attempt to resell them as your own. The same rule applies to most loop/sample libraries, there is usually a caveat that a loop/sample cannot be exposed in a composition or have a set number of other tracks with it or “within a musical context”

However each sample/loop library  has its own Terms and it very important to read their licensing agreements as this may vary. Some for example do not allow their samples to be used in Library or Trailer music. Never buy samples/loops without reading their licensing agreements and conditions.

[Rosalind Richards]

That’s great. Thanks. I use Logic and Apple loops. So even if you mix and match apple loops in Logic without any changes you’re not violating copyright. Or for instance, add a live instrument over a loop.  I’m referring to extreme examples so that I know (I don’t do this but just want to know the extent of what is legal or not). Thanks

 

 

 

[TheOne]

Michael and Mark, thank you for your view on this PD thing. I think I’ll just continue to composed tracks myself 🙂 May them rest in peace.

About using purchased samples, don’t worry about it too much, just read the agreement. As long as you don’t sell the samples as a commercial  “sample library” or use them in isolation without any new instruments, you are good to go.

[woodsdenis]

@Rosalind, This the Apple loops license agreement

B. Except as otherwise indicated, you may use the Apple and third party audio file content (including, but not limited to, the Apple Loops, built-in sound files, samples and impulse responses) (collectively the “Audio Content”), contained in or otherwise included with the Apple Software, on a royalty-free basis, to create your own original soundtracks for your film, video and audio projects. You may broadcast and/or distribute your own soundtracks that were created using the Audio Content, however, individual Apple loops, audio files, sound settings, samples and impulse responses may not be commercially or otherwise distributed on a standalone basis, nor may they be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound files, sound effects or music beds.

 

Which basically means you can use them is any way in your own compositions but you cannot redistribute them separately. (make your own loop library out of them) which is fair. Usher had a no1 record a few years ago with an Apple loop as the main riff in it, no problems at all.

[Author]

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