1,729 thoughts on “General Questions”

  2. Maybe the term “custom” should be used when differentiating between samples and “real” instruments as well. 😀 Unfortunately the people in charge of the film industry aren’t as sensitive as you are.

    I want to make it clear again; there is a lot of great music being produced and entered into film libraries – but it ain’t the same as scoring the next blockbuster.

    • OK I don’t even know what that first paragraph means. And OK congrats: writing lib cues is not the same as scoring the next blockbuster. You’re a genius; I don’t recall anyone saying it was. Playing college football isn’t the Super Bowl either–but it’s how you get there. I can see you are not benefitting from a different POV and I’m too busy producing volumes of music for 5 PMA contracts so it’s agree to disagree for me. Good luck!

  4. BTW, I used the term “real” just to differentiate between scoring work and library work. I think the term differentiates well. I guess my reality check hit a nerve.

    • I suggest “custom” instead of “real” because the opposite of “real” is “fake”. Let me also suggest this scenario: Expertly selected artist needledrops edited into crucial dramatic junctures (scored) of a blockbuster film that function as one of the 17 functions of a film score. Where does that rate for you? It’s like you are saying: if you don’t DJ with vinyl you are not a real DJ, yet everyone is dancing.

      • My $0.02 : that’s some more wisdom from Chris.

        “Real” doesn’t work, and reeks of arrogance. I don’t think the term “differentiates well” at all, fwiw.

        There’s legit music and there’s lame music, and even lame music often makes money… beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all that.

        And, anonymous John, I’m curious how you arrive at the conclusion that “Film scoring takes on a higher level of knowledge and expertise.” Different, yes. “Higher?” Why? How do you mean?

  5. Don’t take it personally Chris. I’m not talking about the quality of music here. But music libraries are far from the “real” thing, which is film scoring. Reality check!

    • I’m not taking it personally and I understand your view. I just don’t agree and I think the term “real” is being put in a box here. Film music used to be a place where experimental techniques, sound design, electronics, and atonality (re: originality) could flourish. The above composers you mention have done nothing but self-parodies for years. Every Hollywood composer and orchestrator I know says: stay in NYC and keep your edge because Hollywood film scores have none. You seem to be puffing up the anointed 40 or so film composers and saying: if you are not on their top level your composing and producing career is not fully consummated. I believe in developing your own sound first and that comes from being the primary composer–even if that’s lib. I hope to design custom audio for composer’s scores because I sound like Chris Jones and no one else. Your “real” definition is too subjective and just too black and white for me. You are deriding an avenue of music production that is a completely legitimate, useful, successful, and lucrative in the path to becoming what you would call “the real thing”.

        • No Chris, I’m actually saying; composing for music libraries and film scoring is completely different. Film scoring takes on a higher level of knowledge and expertise.

          We can pretend we’re in the real game with our insert placements, but it doesn’t make it so.

          John 🙂

          • No I get you. Every composer that produces unique sound recordings intended for unlimited use in TV, film, radio, Internet, trailers, commercials, promos, in-show scores, sports teams, kiosks, industrials, videogames is playing make-believe and isn’t living in the real world. They should stop kidding themselves and realize that scoring a film is different than not scoring one.

  6. I’m talking about the kind of film scoring John Williams, Hans Zimmer, Danny Elfman, Dave Grussin, etc. get. A hand full of composers get these jobs. And composers like Hans Zimmer work with an array of other composers and musicians on these gigs. And that may be the best way to slide through the backdoor of Hollywood filmmaking. Work for one of the known composers. You won’t receive much credit, but you’ll become known in the filmmaker’s circle.

    Go West young man (to Hollywood) and get in the real game.

    • I have it on good authority that Hans is a very fair man. Getting to any of the aforementioned is a healthy combination of luck, dilligence and obviously talent. Id rather be on that side of the fence, as would many, since the level of artistic control is far greater, as are the rewards ( along with the pressure if youre not geared up for the business side at that level). In the meantime, and back to reality..the show must go on.

      Now i must find some lemsip or paracetamol for this cold ive finally succumbed to. Long live UK weather etc 😉

  7. One note about composers and music libraries. Don’t be confused to think that you’re in the real game just because you’re getting placements on TV and film.

    There’s a huge difference between a music library composer and an actual composer that scores music for film.

    Though I’ve received many placements from libraries (primetime and all), I’m still aware that I’m not playing in the big leagues until I receive my first major film score job. These jobs are next to impossible to obtain.

    Of course you won’t find the “real” film score composers conversing on sites like this.

    • There are plenty of amazing “real” composers who have also done libraries. If it’s good enough for Ennio Morricone it’s good enough for me and I don’t compose, arrange, or sound design any less A-game for lib, than a film, ad, or any other custom app. In fact, I will say my lib tracks are what’s getting me closer to working with the “name” composers as a designer. It’s a stepping stone. I don’t understand how you can say getting placements in TV and film isn’t the “real” game.

    • Suffering from low blood sugar today, or a lack of vitamin D?!

      I’m not sure what the source of your self loathing is. Composers all the way up to the close circle around Hans Zimmer contribute to libraries. Extreme Music is a library based in Zimmer’s Remote Control Productions, and the composers ‘on campus’ regularly contribute to the library, with not only tracks rejected from films they’re working on, but also music they’ve written specifically for the library (when they have down time).

      I also went to Berklee (not that I put any stock in that – just noticed that you did), have scored dozens of films (to be honest only the past 4 or 5 have been any good) and regularly write music for TV shows. In addition to all this writing to picture, I’m constantly submitting to libraries, because it’s an additional income stream that keeps me afloat when times are quiet.

      You’re probably familiar with ‘Two Steps From Hell’. I guess you could call those guys library composers, but the level of production rivals anything by Hans Zimmer or John Powell.

      My point is that many composers who write for library music are also actively working on films,TV and games. I agree that scoring to picture involves skills that take many years of honing and are above and beyond what’s required of simply writing a 2 minute track. But what’s your point?

      • I do know 2SFH…I’ve worked with TJ many times, have known him for about 5 years. I also did go to Berklee for Film Scoring and have many friends that have worked with Hans Zimmer’s camp via composing or orchestration.

    • Get an IMDbPro account (not expensive). You’ll have access to info films & TV shows in production, pre-production, etc., AND can put up your resume, credits, etc. AND be able to get direct contact info for directors, production companies, music supervisors, etc. so you can pitch your services directly to them.

    • Those are pretty much all of the biggest libraries. They’re most likely to do work-for-hire deals with composers, because they have the money to pay you well up front (US$1000 a track) and want to own the tracks exclusively.

      • Hi, Matt!
        I plan to finish soon a CD with TV-production music (10-12 tracks incl 30s, 15s edits) to get an exclusive buyout deal with one of such libraries.
        Can you give a hint to this task – is it common practice? How much is the average price for track? Can I keep my writer’s share for future back-ends?
        Thanks in advance!

        • Hi Dmytro,

          I’ve never actually had music ready to shop around to big libraries – I’m always commissioned to write something specific for them. That said, I’m sure you will find someone willing to take those tracks, especially if they are well produced.

          It can take some time to build contacts with libraries that will actually pay you upfront, so if you don’t already have relationships established, be patient – it may take months of calls and meetings to get a deal.

          If you’re talking about US based libraries, buy-out fees for composers are around $600 – $1000 a track.

          NEVER give up your writer’s share – no legitimate library would ever take that from you.

          • Also, if I may butt in- keep in mind with the “majors” that they spend a lot of time forming the concept of the cd’s they produce, so they don’t just buy a bunch of great tracks. They are trying to make life easier for music supervisors and editors by creating cd’s that have a clear defined mood. e.g. “upbeat and sweet” or “dark / dramatic” Additionally, they want a variety of sounds within that mood (which usually means multiple composers). so, they usually just buy tracks that just happen to fit into the project on hand, even if the tracks aren’t your strongest material. (Occasionally, they do form a CD based on one composer.) luck and timing are definitely involved!

            • Well said, ‘no name’ – that’s exactly what I’ve seen from the big library companies. One of them offered to buy some of my existing tracks once, but it was probably to sprinkle them amongst various upcoming CDs.

  9. Dont quote me on this, but dj’s and many producers have been using aliases for years. Now what or how each track is registered at with the PRO is between the publisher/artist AND the PRO itself. A simple example is paul mccartney AKA the fireman. Now how the publishing is worked out is possibly similiar to what ive described above ( i never checked the cd in my friend’s collection carefully enough to see wether the credits were under his original name or THE ALIAS used here). I dont believe he’ll go through the hassle of setting up ANOTHER pubslihign company just for that, considering MPL is making him an astonishing amount, and costing a fair bit to administer. So the entry in the PRO MAY JUST BE “composer= fireman (aka paul mccartney).

    Does that make sense?

    regards

    S Dhain

  10. Hi all,

    Thanks, Art for the great site – very helpful!

    I wonder if anyone has any advice on using an alias for music libraries. I do alot of work as a hired composer for a number of the bigger libraries but want to get my own stuff up with some of the non-exclusive libraries on the internet. My concern is that the libraries I am hired by wont hire me as often if they know that my name is associated with libraries that offer music at (possibly) lower fees.

    If you use an alias do you set up a second publishing company through ASCAP or BMI? Im new to getting my music out there on my own so any advice would be helpful.

    Thanks

    • The PROs allow you to create aliases and collect the royalties under those names. It’s done when someone wants to do exactly what you’re seeking – to uphold the ‘value’ of your name, and still dabble in the lower end of the industry.

      A big one that comes to mind is E.S Posthumus… from my music editing days, I know that their tracks used to be listed on the ASCAP ACE as the Pfeifer brothers. I’m guessing they have gone to great lengths to separate their trailer music business from their album work as E.S Posthumus.

      You’ll have to speak with someone over at your PRO – it’s not something they do every day.

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