1,729 thoughts on “General Questions”

  1. I’ve got question for everybody. I was working on an instrumental tonight and just didn’t feel it was that interesting. I’ll probably finish it, but I was just wondering what others do when they write something they aren’t that crazy about. Do you try to find a place for everything you write, or do you throw anything that isn’t your ‘A’ or ‘B’ material out?

    • I keep a rough ideas folder for stuff that I started and for whatever reason either not in the mood or no immediate ideas etc and put it in there for another time. I find that when I go back to all those rough ideas, I can either finish what I started or they act as a springboard for a whole new idea.
      Also, I found that sometimes interesting is exactly what library supervisors don’t want depending on the use so I don’t throw out anything. I just put in my rough idea folder for another time. Everything has a potential for use.
      My only license this year was from Jinglepunks on a song I had left for dead while I got nothing so far on what I thought was crap and was sorry I had uploaded it thinking it didn’t have a chance. Sometimes the more interesting you make it, the less useful it is for being in the background. Never know. Throw out nothing.

    • I NEVER throw anything away. I’ve got Performer files going back to Performer 1.0, circa 1985,
      about 2500 cues. I’ve got additional cues on PAPER, going back to the stone age. 😆

      • LOL! I know what you mean. I never throw anything also. I have boxes of song starts, on cassette, that I know “someday” I will get back too! They go back to the 70s!

        • I’ve got cassettes from the 70’s too.

          I transferred them to digital files for really LONG storage –just in case! 😆

            • I found a big bag of cassettes but I need a damn pencil to stick in that hole so I can twirl the tape hanging out back into the cassette!

              • when im writing something that im not too keen on i will finish the track anyway for the sake of building my catalog and also cos sometimes the ones you werent keen on sell more than youd expexted.

  3. Question: Would it fair to now say that majority of Jingle Punks backend placements are gratis-type deals.

    I am getting some feedback from other composers that is looking like the outcome.

    If so, is this considered fair to indie composers.

    • I’ve received a number of license fees from JP. More than any other non-exclusives I’m with. That being said, many placements are back end only.

      • I’m a little concerned about the gratis deals…
        It would seem that more of those deals are done.

        I do not doubt that royalties are earned, also.
        I just feel it is not fair to composers to give music away for free. When the company still gets paid somehow.

        Hope I explained it right.

        • A true gratis deal would mean that the library doesn’t get paid either. Both the composers and the library would only earn back end money. A friend of mine works directly with a lot of MTV supervisors and its all through gratis deals. They pay him nothing up front and he only gets back end.

          I think you are thinking of something like a blanket deal where a network or production company pays the library for access to their catalog. Like $2k per year or something and they have access to the entire music catalog. I completely made that number up but the real numbers I have heard for deals like that aren’t all that impressive TBH. So, even though it seems unfair that the composer isn’t getting anything on a deal like that, in reality a library with 10,000 plus cues doing a deal like that would most likely mean pennies for each composer. Or maybe even fractions of pennies. I say let the library keep the $2k or whatever and use it to help pay their overhead.

          -Steve

          • thanks for the reponse.
            The gratis deals were explained by Jingle Punks.
            The concern was over composers not having a say in the matter.

            It would seem that not just JP. The best deals go to the guys that work at the office. Not all , but the majority.

            One would argue it is their right since it is their company, so now the composer has to also compete with the label per say.

            Not just other composers.

            • While we are on the subject of compensation, is there a thread here discussing making money? I would like more objective information on how to maximize income from music licensing. I just do not think anyone here is sharing or even willing to talk about making money. I think a good conversation would help composers to have realistic expectations about how to make a living from their songwriting. Any thoughts?

              • Nobody is withholding secret information from you.
                There is no simple formula to share.

                Most of us learned by trial and error over a long period of time, and then succeeded by a combination of luck and hard work. What worked for one person might not work for another, because we all write and produce differently.

                Here’s a general book about the business that purports to tell you how to make money.

                http://www.amazon.com/Music-Money-Success-Insiders-Business/dp/0825673461

                Here’s a “how to” license website:

                http://www.getyourmusiclicensed.com/

                In the end it comes down to you and your music, whether or not there is a buyer for what you do, and whether or not there is anything about you that stands out from the next person.

              • But… to answer your question directly regarding maximizing your income from music. The writers that I know, including myself, who earn a living, do several different things.

                Michael Nicholas, writes for libraries, he just published his guide book, he owns/operates a studio, he does custom work, he plays live and he does session work (feel free to chime in Michael).

                Erwin (50 styles), as he explained in another thread, writes a lot of custom music for advertising and does live corporate shows.

                Jason Livesey writes library music, and custom music for film and TV, AND he has a live act.

                I write for TV. I write for libraries that pay upfront, I upload music to libraries that sell online, I have commercial CDs for sale on CDbaby, iTunes etc., I have a CD on Pandora that will generate some royalties through Soundexchange, I have an older catalog of library tracks that still generates some royalties.

                I can’t speak for others, but for me, networking and meeting people face to face has been invaluable. Every person that I met led to another connection, another job, another step along the path.

                I can’t speak for others, but IMO you need to invest in the best sounds and instruments that you can afford.

                As daverock put it in another thread, “can you afford to have no income for 2-3 years, while you crank out 100 tracks per year?” I think that is as realistic a statement as any that you’ll see here. The question, after that is how long does it take to earn a living wage?

                Stephen (slideboardouts), I think gave a pretty good break down of how long it took him and how many tracks he had before he could quit his day job and anticipate 50K in earnings.

                Maybe some of the writers that I mentioned will chime in to give you a clearer picture.

                Good luck.

                Michael

                  • Hi euca,

                    Sorry, I can’t remember maybe in Newbie Questions, but if he reads this, I’m sure that he can point you toward it.

                    Cheers,

                    Michael

                  • im not sure where that post is or how to find it. But here is the gist:

                    It took 3 years to start seeing money that was of any consequence. It took 4 years to make a decent living. And by decent I just mean “not poor”.

                    At first I worked a full time job and wrote music as a hobby. Then for about a year I worked a full time job and then wrote music full time when I got home and on the weekends. So basically I had two full time jobs with only one full time salary. I saved as much money as possible while having a full time job.

                    I then got laid off and decided to get a part time job and use my savings so I could focus more on music. Then I basically just weened myself off of the part time job as my music income grew.

                    One thing that’s important to keep in mind when thinking about how long it will take to make a living is what YOUR financial needs are. I will make around 40k this year, which for me is great, but for some people that is an “unlivable” salary. I remember one time hearing some guys saying that they will need to make 80k before being able to quit their day job. Unless you lucked out and landed a theme song, 80k is going to take a while. Especially if you plan on working a full time day job the entire time.

                    -Steve

                    • Thanks for that Steve. Excellent post. I too am pursuing this full time since getting laid off. About how many songs in a year did you average before your first year of “decent” income?

                    • Hey Steve,

                      Thanks for responding, and providing an excellent post regarding your experience.

                      Congrats on your success.

                      Cheers,

                      Michael

                    • @Pat

                      I can’t remember exactly but I think my total catalog was in the neighborhood of 300. So I was probably averaging a little under 100 tracks per year when I started making a decent amount of money. But that “decent” money still wasn’t enough to make a living off of. I had to have a part time job and do various filler work whenever I got a chance. I’ve got somewhere between 600-700 right now, and write anywhere between 100-200 tracks per year plus commercials.

                      -Steve

                • “feel free to chime in Michael”

                  Replace session work with writing articles for “Recording Magazine” and you’ll have it.

                  “help composers to have realistic expectations about how to make a living from their songwriting”

                  Realistically, at least for me, it was easier five years ago. I had a lot of good paying custom work! I say composers now have to expect competition that didn’t exist five years ago. And expect the competition to underbid you or even work for free. Which you can’t compete with. Hmm… as I read that it sounds like a Catch 22! So I agree with Michael. Expect to work hard at several different (music related) things.

                  Michael
                  http://www.guidetopricingmusic.com

              • These are not exactly the types of conversations that I was
                looking for. But thanks anyway. If anyone else can help , I ams looking for stats and hard data such as:

                -Size of catalog
                -Quarterly PRO payments for the last 8 quarters
                -Number of upfront license fees
                -Typical amount earned per license fee
                -Typical earnings per sale on royalty free sites
                -Names of networks/shows that pay the best money

                I guess I am trying to compile a database and set up a plan of attack. I am successful in getting licences. But I know that I may be missing out on something. I know that I could be earning more. I am looking to get more focused to increase my earning for 2012. Thanks anyway.

    • Well, disclaimer – the computer in my studio is not connected to the internet so I’m listening on computer speakers in my office. Not the ideal setup to judge production. So just from bouncing around a few of your tunes I say that I like the cues that use real instruments but the ones that are more MIDI based are less exciting. The MIDI parts don’t have a real feel or sound to me. For example, the horns in the latest Samba. One production technique is to bring in just one real player and blend in their performance with your MIDI. Imagine the difference it would make say with just one real trumpet overdubbed a few times! Another technique is to work in some loops. Loops are usually recordings of real instruments, not MIDI, and can add a sense of realism.

      Michael
      http://www.guidetopricingmusic.com

      • Michael:
        Thanks very much for the comments, and I say I have to agree with you on the horn parts. Before I got this new MacBook pro, I was using Kick-Ass Brass, which were great samples, but KAB is not compatible with MAC OSX, so I have been using the brass setting on my Yamaha S90 RS Synth, and they are not that good. Very synthetic sounding. But I can only use what I can afford now…as you know.

        I would like to use some real horn players but don’t know any here where I live

        I do use loops for all of my World music tracks for the ethnic instruments and they do sound great.

        Thanks again, and I appreciate your taking the time to listen.
        Gary

        • You’re welcome Gary.

          “But I can only use what I can afford now…as you know”

          I do know. It’s a shame that music industry based income is so low these days. In many cases it just doesn’t allow for purchasing upgrades and the “latest and greatest”.

          Loops are good for World, but with a little practice can be used for any type of piece. Check out my orchestra version of “O Come All Ye Faithful”. –
          http://www.studioninelicensing.com/song/4 Melody is real nylon string guitar, the backing track is made up entirely of orchestra loops I manipulated to fit my arrangement. No MIDI used at all. The loops are recordings of a real orchestra so I hope it brings a sense of realism.

  6. Thanks for the responses guys. I had been leaving these long gaps open and it started bugging me being so I decided to email Ryan at Scorekeepers since it does make sense that rather than being an industry standard, it would depend on what they want.

    • Hi Pat
      Its important to differentiate between Alt Mixes and Stems when delivering, Stems ARE the whole individual tracks/tracks with gaps if they exist. These enable the client to reconstruct a mix and delete a part as required if they want. Alt mixs are just that, usually with lead instruments deleted or drums and bass only etc.

      • Hi woodsdenis, thanks for explaining the difference between alts and stems. I was never clear on that.
        This library
        Now since I’m not being requested to send separate tracks but “alt” versions, I’d been sending the stereo .wav minus whatever instrument which sometimes leaves that large gap. That is the question. To close or not to close the gaps created by removing certain instruments in alt versions.

        • I was always under the impression that Alts were just edits of the original track, as in :60, :30, :15, etc… I always try to edit the entire track, with all the instruments in the mix (unless something didn’t work in the edit). In that case, you would edit out the gaps. I would email the library and ask specifics, anything on the web will be just a guess.

          • I believe edits are the 30, 60,1min whatever versions with all the instruments and alts are the no bass, no lead, no drums etc versions. I think editing out the gaps would sound better but as previously mentioned maybe they want the gaps in. I emailed Scorekeepers and asked them what they want. I’ve never gotten any feedback from them about my edits but that could just mean they didn’t decide to used them without telling me what they want.

            • My Understanding of the terms are

              Stems: Tracks or generally a collection of like tracks from beginning to end of cue which would enable the sound-mixer/Client to dropout,lets say the drums on a particular section. Usually Drums,bass,Keys,BVs Vox, FX,Strings etc. each grouped as a stereo pair.

              Alts. Alternative mixs of the main cue, maybe an instrumental of a Vocal cue or with a lead element taken out, sometimes referred to as Underscore if it is just chordal based with no discernible melody.

              Edit. Cut down versions of the Main track that comply to the length of Advertising for TV. Generally 30sec or 60 sec. There are different standards for this though, in Ireland and UK a 30sec TV commercial is in fact 29 secs of sound . There is a 15 frame blank at start and end so that commercials dont run into each other.

              • Great definitions. My edits thus far are 30sec 60 etc with all instruments. My alts (no bass, bass and drums etc) are full length only.

                • Yes, good definitions Denis. One reason for having alts is so that the music editor can drop out the vocals or lead instrument at any point so that it will not compete with dialogue in a scene. In that case, the sound mixer will have one track with the full mix, and one track with the underscore (mix without the vocals of lead instrument), and he can switch between the two. Those two have to match up perfectly. So no, you would not edit out the gaps.

                • Alt versions have to make sense of course, this is where you use your own judgement, sometimes a Drums and Bass version might really work, for a lot of TV work this is what they need. Dont forget for TV/Film underscore,loud melody really isn’t as important as in a main cue.
                  Listen to underscore work on mainstream TV drama, its not meant to stand out, its there to enhance a scene. A simple chord seq on a synth might do the trick or maybe one note!!!
                  Remember Twin Peaks Cm+5./Cm/Cm7/Cm on a stock synth pad Brilliant. I think I have the key right (MichaelL correct me) but you get the idea.

                  • “Alt versions have to make sense of course, this is where you use your own judgement”
                    Great post and that’s pretty much what I was looking for woodsdenis because my alts could be slammin and then for 10 bars you could hear crickets then out of the blue all this music throws back up on you.
                    I think I was being a bit too ridgid thinking there were some standard industry hard and fast rules I wasn’t following and instead of the libraries telling me different, they’d just discard my alts which is also disgarding chances to get licensed.

  7. Alt version question for you guys.
    I’m doing some alt versions like drums and bass only, no lead etc. Do you still make the alt version the full version with only those items even if there’s a big empty space where maybe the synth alone would play only now it’s muted because it’s a drum and base alt? The drum and bass sound great until it hits that 80r 16 bar blank where nothing is heard.
    Just wondering how supervisors handle that.
    Thanks

    • Hey Pat,

      I haven’t been in that situation, but I would edit out the gap. You’re describing a “bed” mix, usually the rhythm section without the melody. The “bed” doesn’t have to be the same length as the full track, especially if it doesn’t make sense. Nothing is written in stone.

      Cheers,

      Michael

  8. Ok gang. Need some constructive criticism on the production quality of my tracks. Anything I can do to improve etc. I have only been at this for a couple of years, and done pretty well, but need some feedback from some of you that have been at this for while. Think I may be getting a bit over-critical….

    You can hear my tracks by going to my website http://www.garywolkproductions.com and click on the Music page. Soundcloud would probably the the best, as they are MP3’s with no watermarks.

    Any comments would be appreciated!! Good or bad..

    Thanks
    Gary

    • I can tell you what is wrong with your music. I will tell you exactly all.of the things that you are doing wrong thus far. I see that your biggest problem is that…just kidding!

      Your music is awesome to me. Any library would be lucky to have you as a composer. Keep workng hard. You have the gift.

    • GaryW, the guiro is real. I played it, a clean recording through a decent condenser. I’m going to try bringing the level way down on the mastered mix next.
      Thanks

      • Getting rid of the loudness maximizer helped a lot. I normalized to -0.1 after the mp3 conversion. I still hate the sound of a 128kbps mp3, but at least the mood of the cue is conveyed now.

        I would appreciate any insight if anyone has ideas. I’ll be glad to email a snippet of mp3 and wav versions so you can hear what’s happening.
        Cheers!

  10. Help!

    I’m finishing up a cue that has a guiro. When I convert to mp3 the sound gets destroyed. Much worse than other stuff does. I’ve notice similar symptoms when converting synth tracks with square wave based patches, but this is unacceptable.
    I mastered in Ozone, loudness to -0.1, not squashed. It’s crystal clear as a wave. I’ve tried the LAME converter in Sonar and the converter in Sound Forge. SF is a little better. I need to make it 128kbps so Crucial can reject it (sorry, I couldn’t resist)

    Thoughts?

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