71 thoughts on “Making it in the music business.”

  1. Once again – ive done it privately a few times- I have to thank Art from the bottom of my heart for this site, cause until it came along, i was ALWAYS pitching round the clock and sometimes pouring through pages and pages of spiel in the name of contractual agreements when submitting to supervisors. So help me god, this business – and IT IS a business – isnt for the weak of mind or even stomach, but stuff like this has made it PHENOMENALLY easier for stalwarts and newcomers alike to suss out what’s right for them. Especially when you consider that the CEO’s themselves are coming on to comment on their businesses..when was the last time, other than rare interviews on the net, which could have been deemed to being freebie promos for their businesses, did or have you seen that?

    Ill stop there before it looks like art has chucked me a few thousand pounds for promos himself, or im high on stimulants (lol…afraid not, i dont have the time right now even for a relaxing beer or two). Im just glad someone has done this, and we’re all (hopefully) going to be contributing to MAKE A DIFFERENCE in the business for all of us now and in the future.

    Kind regards

    S R DHAIN
    DIRECTOR
    JUICY AUDIO PRODUCTIONS.

  2. Thanks everyone for the feedback. The actual income figures seem to point at keeping a daytime job, unless you are extremely prolific and productive. I guess an established artist with a name can rake in big dollars with a movie or tv contract, but generally, that type of artist is going to be a performer first.

  3. Both frank and Dean have covered the lot, in terms of the pros and cons, including good average ROI guides on the music. the ONLY point i can add, is that if youre outside the USA, then it takes much longer to get the money via your PRO ( eg PRS) than if youre resident in the states. Up to TWO YEARS in some cases. It also pays to keep track of what has been used if you suspect you havent been paid for something, cause misspelt cue sheets, or even NON FILLED cue sheets arent uncommon.

    regards

    S Dhain

  4. General rule of thumb has been $300-400 per tune per year. That’s both license fees and PRO royalties. Some tunes may make much more while some will make little or no money – it’s an average. However, I think that with the recent huge influx of music into a fast growing number of libraries vying for the same available placements, that number has diminished.

    Any way you look at it, to make anywhere near decent money in this business you need hundreds of solid tunes in many good libraries.

  5. Just wondered if anyone has any actual success stories that give beginners any ideas about how much a tune can make in actual dollars from licenses and royalties. I’m just starting out and wonder how lucrative library placement can be. Also, How people who place 20-25 songs might do in a given year in terms of income.

    I also was curious about any experiences with publishers who are listed as non-libraries, or whose music is not royalty free.

    • Hi Mike, I wish there were simple answers to your questions!
      The truth is that it “all depends”. Sorry for the standard cliché but it’s true.

      It depends on:
      – How good your music is, in particular how well it is produced. This usually determines how much money you might be able to get for a license, and if it will get used/bought at all.
      – How usable the music is, i.e. is it easily implemented in TV or film. Is it evocative, sit behind dialog well (or grab your attention for trailers and promos). Also important is how needed is the genre of your music, and how much of it is already out there (competing with yours for getting used)
      – Where you’ve put your music…It depends on how good the libraries are at selling (royalty free etc) or how good their connections are (for getting placed on TV and film for licenses and/or royalties)
      – How many different places you put the music, for non-exclusive deals. No shame in pimping the same tracks out to 10+ companies to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket.

      In the license world, 20-25 songs/tracks might equate to big bucks annually, IF your music is top notch, and in the hands of some seriously connected libraries. One license at the top end of the industry can be upwards of $10K, for trailers and films.
      The reality is that for most composers, license income from 20-25 tracks (based my experience and that of my friends) is not much per year. You might get lucky with one or two good licenses, or none at all. You really need a lot more than 20-25 to make a living from licenses.

      In the royalty-free world, 20-25 tracks is not going to be much! I sell my music on several of the biggest websites, and from having about 180 tracks out there, I get about $600 a month. Quality and usability apply here just as much as in the license world.

      In the performance royalties side of things (ASCAP, BMI, PRS etc) it’s even more about how much music you have. I’ve got about 1200 tracks out in the world, (non-exclusive and exclusive deals with libraries), and I usually get a check every quarter between $7000 and $20000.

      Hope this info helps!

  8. i agree strongly that educating yourself about the music business is critical & it defintely is a business. I’m not sure about the college/night school thing as there are many ways to learn. The most successful film/TV composers i know did not learn the business side in school, they spent a tremendous amount of time on their own reseraching and learning. 🙂

    making money in film/tv music is a vastly different game than going after a recording contract with a label or becoming a hit songwriter. Similar to what was said, it’s a track numbers game– the more library tracks you have, the more you might place and it’s a slow process that takes years. You won’t make a living (or anything even close) without hundreds of tracks working for you, generally spread out over many libraries. (Spread out to keep the eggs out of one basket, pitch different markets, different venues, etc)

    Those composers making money signed a lot of different types of deals in order to get tons of tracks out there– Some exclusives, some non-ex with re-title, some non-ex without re-title, some work-for-hire (get writer’s share) etc.

    If you want to make serious money in film/TV music, it’s doubtful you have a chance if you are willing to sign only one type of contract and/or never willing to give up the publisher’s share. It’s impossible to build up the numbers game that way.

    Personally i find it contradictory to talk about learning the business and take rigid stances as to what kind of deals you will do or not do (as long as they are honest deals). Unless you are gifted beyond belief and very lucky there just wouldn’t be enough libraries out there that meet the rigid requirements such as no-retitle, no back-end given, etc.

    If there is a problem with re-titling, it’s not unfairness to the composers. People who market your music generally will get the publisher’s share as compensation, which IMO is OK. Without them, you’d have no placements. The problem, if any, is the long term impact on the industry as we’ve discussed elsewhere.

    😉

  9. I hear ya s r dhain! Great Info!

    Im an artist who loves what I do, and have a solid fanbase all over the world. But, I still work a 9 to 5. I had tried for years to look for a record deal, and had a small deal a few years back (the deal eventually fell through, since I chose not to fall victim to dishonest label actions and contracts).

    I would always continue to learn about the music business. I’ve always learned how important and lucratice publishing is, but never really tried to take full advantage of publishing until recently. My goal is to keep doing what I love to do, while making enough money to make a living.. But at the same time, I will always trust my instincts and only make deals with companies I am comfortable with. That’s why I remain vocal about the importance of understanding certain topics such as re-titling. Yes, you can still get placements and make money with those libraries that re-title, but I feel composers should at least consider the ‘fairness’ of the concept (I appreciate s r dhain for adding comments as to whether a library engages in re-titling). Just like a record deal, there is a chance (although very small imo) that you could have a hit or become a millionaire, by signing a bonus deal. But do you simply sign the deal just because its a “common” thing in the industry…or do you AT LEAST ask questions and spark a conversation. I prefer the latter, regardless of if your decision remains the same after the conversation has ended.

    In the end, you should be honest with yourself and figure out what your goals are in the music business. I also have my own independent record label, so Im loooking to use any licensing monies to help fund and promote my albums. Add that to getting a bigger piece of the pie from record sales, touring, producing, etc…and I don’t see a reason why I couldn’t make an honest and decent living from my craft.

  10. Its all out there,people. There’s a lot of £££ or $$$ in the placement business and if youre smart you’ll be able to grab a load of it. Of course, everyone’s ambitions are different , and some of us want to land a top film or tv show , whereas others are just happy to be paid. In any case, on a practical level, i’ll be a bit cheeky here and put up the end of my lecture notes from a recent session. There was no mention of music libraries in the session, but the e-portals et al comment can be taken in context if necessary :-

    If you want to make it in the music business :-

    1) DONT GIVE UP YOUR DAY JOB. At least not until youve seen a paycheck in your hands that is realistically the equivalent of a regular sustainable income. If you dont know what the last sentance means, then PLEASE READ 2)

    2) IT IS A BUSINESS, so go to college/ university/night school AND LEARN ABOUT BUSINESS. This is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if you dont know what a manager is, or CANT AFFORD TO HIRE ONE.

    3) WRITE AND RECORD RELENTLESSLY UNTIL YOU HAVE MORE THAN 50 TRACKS. Then and ONLY THEN should you spend time building amazing portals and e-technology sites.

    4) IF YOURE SERIOUS ABOUT IT, STILL HEED 1)

    5) If youre making more than youre mum and dad put together on a regular basis from music, then ignore 1) as..

    6) Congratulations, youve now got to the stage where you can SUSTAIN YOURSELF with your art. To go any further, you’ll now need A GOOD LUCKY BREAK. The law of averages should by now be on your side

    all the above (c) 2009, S R DHAIN (workflow seminar)

    😉

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