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I’m curious, who do you think typically pays better backend for television sync? ASCAP or BMI? Thanks for your input!
LG
The word “sync” is used incorrectly here, just so you know. That refers to front-end (up front) license fees which PRO’s do not get involved in.
As far as back-end PRO royalties, the pay is about the same when averaged over a number of different placements. One may pay slightly more on one while the other pays better on another. For most folks who do what WE do – film/TV cues, there really isn’t a financial difference.
It varies from placement to placement, but it evens out between both companies.
One difference I’ve noticed is that BMI doesn’t seem to do ‘surveys’ as much as ASCAP. From what I’ve observed, BMI pays for just about every minute of music on 2nd tier cable, while ASCAP only pays out on the music that shows up on their surveys (you get more if you show up, but zilch if your music doesn’t air during the survey). For top cable shows and network background instrumental tracks, the two PROs pretty much even out.
As of the July 9, 2012 writers statements (paying for 4th Quarter of 2011), ASCAP has changed the way they pay for songs (Background Vocal). The Background Instrumental rate did not increase. BV and BI are now paid the same. BMI still pays more for BV. There are some other issues going on with ASCAP and their distribution payments. BMI pays better for television background sync at this point. There is a petition just started this week by songwriters/composers to ASCAP to change this. But if I were starting out, I would NOT go with ASCAP.
I am a BMI writer/publisher. My business/writing partner is ASCAP. We had identical placements in 2012. His publishing back-end was $11,000.00 more than mine. No joke. I am leaving BMI and joining ASCAP.
@ DA…I’ve written on this topic A LOT. I just spent 1.5 years moving from ASCAP to BMI. How many times has this happened?
My experience was exactly the opposite of yours. By business partner’s BMI royalties were $7,000 higher than my ASCAP royalties. Then, I got my first BMI statement and the royalties for one quarter were 2.5 times more than what I received from ASCAP for three quarters.
You might want to make sure that BMI got all of the cue sheets and air date info. AND, unlike ASCAP, they are really good at fixing things, if there’s a mistake. They sent me a special distribution instead of making me wait until the next quarter.
@MichaelL…Thanks for the reply. I am in contact with my BMI rep and forwarded both 2012 BMI and ASCAP statements to analyze. The feedback I received was that BMI pays less on VH1 shows than ASCAP. I have a ton of placements on Vh1 shows and $11,000.00 seems pretty extreme to just be a VH1 anomaly. I understand that the PRO’s all have different pay scales but this seems a bit extreme. I’m expecting to hear from my BMI rep at the end of this week but I’m seriously thinking of terminating my BMI agreement. My termination window is at the end of this month. I’m on the edge because I have a sh!t load of tracks affiliated with BMI.
Just chiming in a bit. I’m with a non-USA PRO but have half of my tunes registered by my USA publishers through BMI & half with ASCAP. So far, when I compare my royalties with my collaborators who are with BMI for the same placements, ASCAP seem to pay about 4 times and sometimes even more. I’ve been really puzzled by that.
-AxD
@DA and AXD. Like I said, my experience has been exactly the opposite. I was told ten years ago by one of the PMA founders that I would make more money with BMI than ASCAP. He was right.
I was once vastly overpaid by ASCAP. When they figured it out they deducted money from my royalties for several years until they got it all back.
$11,000 seems to be insanely high for VH1 placements, unless you’ve had about 110,000 performances.
Thanks Michael for sharing. For my comparison, it wasn’t a matter of thousands just $25 is to $4 for one placement & some others around that range diff. too. And I’m only just starting to get royalties from the US so I still need time to get better result infos. For the time being, I’m staying safe & having half of my tracks registered on each side, since I do have that option as an outsider PRO member.
I probably should reiterate that in my case the difference in payments between ASCAP and BMI was due to ASCAP missing 75% of the performances, not so much that they paid less per performance (although ASCAP did pay about 30% less for one cable theme).
@MichaelL….Your right. 11,000.00 is insanely high for just VH1 shows. I’m still trying to pry out more info from my Rep regarding this. Very frustrating.
I was wondering, when you you made the switch from ASCAP to BMI did your ASCAP music convert over to BMI? Or does ASCAP retain the admin of music registered with them.
Thanks
Hi DA,
I’ve explained this a few times before. If BMI is anything like ASCAP, if you want to move your existing tracks, all of your publishers have to agree.
Read this thread:
Remember I was going from ASCAP to BMI, not the other way around. I don’t know BMI’s procedure in that regard. I am very happy that I made the move. YMMV.
That’s a decision that you have to make for yourself. If you’ve got until the end of the month I’d wait to see what BMI’s analysis of the statements is. For your partner’s sake, I hope ASCAP didn’t make a mistake.
BTW, if you have direct deposit, ASCAP’s agreement allows them to get their money back from your account.
If I were in your position, I’d do two things 1) wait for answers, 2) contact the library that placed the cues. They’d have disparate payments too. see what they think.
Good luck.
Michael
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