- This topic has 287 replies, 32 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 10 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Wow, this one exploded !!! Glen/mr Composer why take such an extreme stance on this. There are many different types of non exclusive libraries out there. The ones I choose to sell from, do not sell at rock bottom prices. The ones that do , well thats their business. I am not going to start declaring that they have ruined the library business for the rest of us, thats sounds like scaremongering.
Also your definition of music in general is very elitist, any decent composer I know doesn’t use those terms. I assume you think that Dr Dre is a “beatmaker” who pastes samples together.If you choose to dismiss an entire genre of music because ignorance, then you are very foolish indeed.
Lets get real here, there are many terrible exclusives out there amongst the handful of good ones.If you have the luck or talent to get into a good one, good luck to you.Just because you, do does not make you a superior composer, or give you in any way the right to demean other peoples music. Have a listen to Mark Petrie or Jason Livesey’s orchestral cues, and honestly tell me that they are inferior to your own work, or any other in its genre.
Don’t be blinkered musically and business wise while you think you are sitting on top of the pile. There is one thing for sure in this business, no one is immune from being toppled from their perch.
Like MichaelL I am an old pro too, and embrace all the opportunities out there.
I’ve got tracks with EMI which have samples in, plenty of samples. I did a lot to change them and make the tracks interesting and engaging, but you certainly don’t have to use live instruments in all genres. You can do so much with just a computer and software. In fact almost none of my tracks with EMI uses a live instrument.
As much as some of us may dislike it, some of what mr composer says is true as well. Perhaps he sounds snobbish, but for example: Pond5 does not have the same connections at TV studios and networks that Extreme does. Not even close. That is a simple fact that results in much better (higher paying) placements for Extreme.
The “good” music, “bad” music argument has been debated numerous times on MLR, almost from inception in 2009. Those who think they are “experts” in determining this only illuminates how clueless they really are.
“I certainly try to funnel in some artistic and compositional”
@Glen: Just because you think you are “artistic and compositional” does not make it so. It’s all subjective.Anything else is just chucking a heap of crap onto an already mountainous heap of musical dung.
@mr.composer: Really? Another “expert” I presume.
Art, Like I said…I “try” to present a piece that has some unique and artistic value. I am not saying that everyone is great or even good or even average. This discussion should not be about whether or not people have the ability to create “superbly fantastic, intellectual” music only played by the most “elite” musicians in the world. It’s about respecting the time and labor that goes into a composition and making that labor worth something…and…trying to craft something good that people will like. This craft (this labor) must have a price…and $15 on an RF site is not a real price! It’s about composers not becoming free slaves to publishers and their clients. Should I just shut up and let things be as they are?…not write about it?…not express my opinion and let it get worse?…do you all really believe that we are on a path to prosperity and revenue growth for our craft and service? Is the industry going to create better opportunities and revenue and royalty growth for composers moving into the future? Or are we all just going to cave in and say “here ya go…here are all my cues for you to own and control and make money off of…please pay something in return.”
By the way, it is my very informed and very educated opinion that exclusive music is being demanded by only the major networks in the U.S. as well as the music supervisors working on high budget films. These entities just don’t want to deal with re-titled works that are floating around on several sites. Cable stations such as MTV, VH1, History, TLC, Discovery, Bravo, A&E, Nat Geo, etc, etc…are not making demands that music be sourced from exclusive publishers. They can care less where it comes from…as long as it is free. If you feel as though your tracks are going to compete for prime time network slots…go ahead and sign away to “exclusivity” and lose control of your only asset. JP can’t compete against Extreme or DeWolfe or Hollywood composers…gee…maybe the Hipster Orchestra will get the job done…yeah…sure they will.
Did anyone else notice the new listings on film music job wire? A library in Nashville is after music for pilot on ABC & also the winter Olympics coverage on NBC. Both were wanting NON EXCLUSIVE tracks for major network placements…. Nothing more needs to be said, the sky isn’t falling, major networks still use non exclusive tracks, some libraries are trying their best to dupe composers into signing their lives away.
@Glen: I don’t have any argument about what you are saying except when the conversation turns to trying to defining “good” or “bad” music. That will always set me off.
I for one am pretty much non-exclusive except for JP. They have done a great job placing our music (including major networks) so I don’t mind sending a few exclusives their way to see what happens. If I can get a few more into SK I will do that also. Both of those companies have contributed a lot to my income over the last few years. It’s a small risk as far as I’m concerned. Anyone else then no, unless it’s very compelling (not even sure what compelling would be!). I will stay non-exclusive as at this point it’s the only thing that makes sense.
As far as RF sites? I think we are all feeling our way on this as to pricing. It’s a work in progress.
It seems like Glen would be best off trying to form a composers’ union, since without a doubt if we could club together we would be taken advantage of less frequently.
But the rest sounds more like paranoia to me. There are some exclusive libraries that make massive successes out of composers: e.g. look at that MichaelL KPM video. KPM is one of those, as is Extreme (look at mr composer). It’s up to each composer what to do with their music, and surely if you feel your music is above most others’, then you will be just fine?
Ultimately you can’t argue with the customer. If they want a $15 cue from a non exclusive and don’t like you live instrument studio produced $1,000 cue, there’s nothing you can do, except find the right market for your music.
P.S Art – what is SK?
It is amusing that people find my views unpaletable. I amnot trying to provoke an argument, merely offer a different perspective. I do believe that our craft has become devalued and it seems now that everyone and their dog wants to be a library composer – but they want to do it the easy way.
How many people nowadays go and study at a conservatoire to learn the real fundamental skills of orchestration, theory, counterpoint, arranging etc.? Not many. Moreover, people would rather go on some mickey mouse music production course.
Maybe it’s just coincidence then that I learnt my craft thoroughly and now make good music that is in demand and I get well paid for it. My point is, and this will be the last post I make because you all must find me a little annoying, making good music – now that’s the thing. Just try and create something original and wonderful. If you concentrate on the music and imparting genuine emotion, the rewards will come because your music will have humanity and communicate with people on an emotional level.
If your focus is on whether you only uploaded 650 tracks to a rf library this week, well then you are setting yourself up as a cheap mini mart for music, a soulless, passionless uninspired cobbled together turgid midi fest.
Just try and make real music is all I am saying and make it for the right reasons.
Genuinely best wishes to everyone in their endeavours,though.
Ultimately you can’t argue with the customer. If they want a $15 cue from a non exclusive and don’t like you live instrument studio produced $1,000 cue, there’s nothing you can do, except find the right market for your music.
@B Minus Truer words were never spoken.
Glen and Mr Composer are painting everything with really broad strokes with their statements that *all* composers are taking the easy way out.
My company represents more than 150 incredibly talented composers and none of them are loop-pasters or whatever derogatory term is being used in this thread. The music submissions I review everyday are for the most part amazing and they make me proud and more than a bit humble to be associated with these composers.
I am astounded on a daily basis at the amount of untapped talent that is out there and that anyone from any country, any education level, any background, is now on the same level playing field as those fortunate enough to have the financial means to go to a music conservatory and get their degrees.Just try and create something original and wonderful. If you concentrate on the music and imparting genuine emotion, the rewards will come because your music will have humanity and communicate with people on an emotional level.
This is very nicely said and is exactly what composers should strive for.
if we could club together we would be taken advantage of less frequently
I don’t understand this sentiment from composers. The “being taken advantage of” or “not being fair”.
I mean, are music library owners breaking into your home and forcing you to upload your music into their databases? You know the business model before signing on to any library, why would you feel something is unfair or you are being taken advantage of after you chose to sign on with a company.
What exactly is “not fair” about music libraries that you volunteer to work with?And the naive notion that you can get “all us composers” together and run a music library is just silly. That’s exactly what these existing libraries are, they are working composers like myself, Bjorn Lynne, Mark Petrie, etc etc, creating a space for their fellow composers to distribute their music.
The naivety of the statement “all us composers should get together” just shows how little most composers know about the business, technical, legal and marketing side of what music libraries do.
Even if “all us composers” got together you would still have to pay 50% of your earnings to make the venture any kind of a success.
And if you created a system that actually did include “all us composers” it would end up being a database of millions of composers, 100’s of millions of tracks from the absolute worst to the best in quality.
Good luck getting a client to search through that mess.My point about being taken advantage of is much more aimed at things like:
– A TV studio dangles promise of further work in front of you to get a free license on your track (them knowing they have 10 more composers lined up and will almost certainly not use you, they just wanted that piece for free)
or
– Contracts which state you are not permitted to join forces with other composers if you need to pursue legal action against the library – even if they outright refuse to pay you your 50% (these contracts do exist)
I’m not talking about fair, or just, because those words are our perceptions.
It’s more simply that like any industry, bringing the staff, or in this case, product creators together, strengthens their position.
It’s no different to office cleaners in the US when they formed unions so they could have a stronger negotiating position. Or London underground staff who now have what seems to be ‘too much’ power in their union.
In summary:
Everything is a negotiation. A composers’ union would put us in a stronger negotiating position in almost every case.
This thread has taken a few interesting turns,
On the subject of the thread I think it is more prudent to control your own copyright in an uncertain market place. I would certainly go exclusive with a number tracks if they were signed with one of the big libraries. Diversity and multiple revenue streams is the key I think.
The notion that a music degree is vital to compose good music is just silly and arrogant no matter what way you look at it. The Beatles anyone..
Wether us composers like it or not, we live in an ever changing world
as far a music technology goes. The playing field has been levelled and this is a good thing, for all the average stuff, there are talents that wouldn’t have emerged, purely because of economics. If you are into electronic music check out Mr Bill and Tom Cosm. In fact even if you are not check them out, and experience something different and unique.Look at other art forms, photography for example . We now carry brilliant cameras and video recorders in our pockets. Just because I have an iPhone doesn’t make me Ansell Adams, but the next genius photographers will come from this generation.
Finally I have no desire or skill to run my own library, I will gladly hand that over to someone else. BUT I am careful,selective and diligent who I work with. The whole beauty about what Art has created here, is that info and experience is now available to all of us.
Did anyone else notice the new listings on film music job wire? A library in Nashville is after music for pilot on ABC & also the winter Olympics coverage on NBC. Both were wanting NON EXCLUSIVE tracks for major network placements…. Nothing more needs to be said, the sky isn’t falling, major networks still use non exclusive tracks, some libraries are trying their best to dupe composers into signing their lives away.
Keep in mind that any library can run a listing so they can collect tracks in the hopes of pitching for future events like these. These ads are blind so we don’t know anything about the library running the listing. They could be anything from a startup doing wishful thinking to a well connected library with a good shot at these types of placements. You can’t conclude ANYTHING from this listing.
I am *NOT* saying that tracks have to come from an exclusive library for use by NBC for these events. Just saying that the fact that a library wants to sign tracks non-exclusively to pitch here means very little.
“If your focus is on whether you only uploaded 650 tracks to a rf library this week, well then you are setting yourself up as a cheap mini mart for music, a soulless, passionless uninspired cobbled together turgid midi fest.”
That was worth the price of admission! Hilarious!
Whatever makes you successful is what you should pursue.
This craft (this labor) must have a price…and $15 on an RF site is not a real price! It’s about composers not becoming free slaves to publishers and their clients.
Glen, I think that you’re really being more than a bit melodramatic here. Where to begin?
First, has anyone bound you in chains, beaten you and forced you to compose music for free? I didn’t think so. Maybe slave is too strong a word then.
Now, let’s talk about labor. One cold snowy/rainy morning, a few months ago I drove past a group of men who were replacing the waste line to a house, up to their necks in mud, in wet,freezing weather. Now, THAT is labor. I thought, how fortunate I am (and we are) to be able to compose music for a living.
This is a business of averages. Like any investment portfolio, you balance the winners against the losers. Some cues sell / place a lot, others do not. But, what about your example of the $15 RF cue? Do you expect to sell that cue only once? What if you sell it 100 times? Supply and demand economics. Here’s a synopsis: when goods are plentiful the price goes down. When goods are scarce the price goes up. AND…there has to be a demand, or need, for what you’re selling. It has never been more inexpensive to produce good “sounding” music. As a result, music has never been more plentiful, and that is the source of the “price” problem.
Your scenario of composers banding together and demanding more money from libraries and TV bigwigs isn’t likely to happen, for a number of reasons, mainly competition. Some composers are actually, dare I say it, business persons. They understand what it takes to be competitive, whether that means working harder, investing more, or letting the market set its price.
What you’re really saying is that you want to return to the halcyon days, when only “qualified” composers could enter the field and,as such, could charge what they wanted. I’m afraid that horse has left the barn. The only solution to your quandry would be for Art to post this message: To all future library composers,wannabes, hobbyists and amateurs(especially those using loops) the library buisness is now closed. There are too many of you, making too much music (most of which lacks artistic merit). Please stop and go away, because you are causing the value of my labor (I use the term loosly) to go down.Unfortunately…that is not likely to happen. So, get used to competing on the “level playing field.”
_Michael
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.