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Relax, guys. These are my own personal thoughts on music copyrights and such based on my own experience. Let us focus on the discussion. No need for personal attacks. 😉
I think that streaming is here to stay and musicians and publishers will have to adapt. Owning a collection of music doesn’t have the same allure as it did in the past. Access and convenience are what the consumer are after. I stream music a lot and I like it! I buy less and less mp3 songs as a result.
The technology will only be disrupted by a newer one at this point. While streaming is here, we have to work together to monetize our music as soon as we can.
Very interesting and good article and I don’t know why the fuzz is brought up by DI about the whole copyright thing (which make no sense at all in my opinion, why the heck on earth would you sabotage the only thing that is protecting your craft…., even 20 years after death is stupid in my opinion, what about your wife, children etc?).
I think Van Dyke is making some really really good points to the horrible debt we slipped into with the streaming royalties and the compensation we get from digital sales.
I think we already praised ourselves lucky with that at least some compensation was offered after the whole piracy crisis a few years ago, but I think most of us (me included) where maybe too wishful in our thinking that this would be a turnaround and that better compensation will arise again.I do think however that we entered a ship that is sinking and is that it can’t be saved anymore.
I don’t know how, but somehow I think everything needs to be completely restructured in how we should get proper compensation. I always twirled around the subject to be honest, but at least for me it is time to wake up and start to get my head out of the sand and begin to raise my voice to get proper compensation for the labor we provide and to figure out how to change the mindset of the current and upcomming generations.
That is what frightened me the most and what I know of course, but never fully realized, that the current generation doesn’t even know anymore what privacy was and that not everything was freely accessible.This whole “arguing with DI” thing is getting really. Every time I visit this forum it seems some good thread has been hijacked and go off course….
“really old”. Damn ipad 🙂
Hi Desire Inspires, or yadggu, or whatever troll name you’re currently using, do you even know what public domain is? Why would you get so enraged about the only law that exists that actually protects composer’s rights to be paid fairly for what they create?
Instead of just saying “explain your diverse viewpoints” blah blah blah, why not explain what the hell you are talking about?I understand the frustration with with DI, who often seems to confuse confidence for insight. But you really just look like you’re having a tantrum. Why don’t you calmly explain to him why he is misinformed, and then move on? Be more professional than him.
Yes…the thread was hijacked, or at least thrown off course. The article and thread should be about the low payouts on streaming services, like Spotify.
Has anyone actually commented on THAT?
Actually I did. I spoke about the Songwriter’s Equity Act that is being promoted by ASCAP. I think that those guys are working hard to move things in the right direction.
Link: http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/4079
Does anyone else have solutions to “If You Didn’t Already Know”?!?
Can’t say that I have a solution for this, but when my non-library music (music for retail sale, which happens to be in a bit of a niche market) hit 20k streams and I saw the pathetic income it brought, I made the decision never to write any more of it. The streaming killed MP3 or iTunes purchases.
20,000 streams. If 20,000 people had paid $.99, I would own the entire 8dio catalog. Nope. Juicy Fruit. I was able to purchase some Juicy Fruit gum. Yep.
The income from streaming is to low, no doubt about that. But with all respect, if your songs were listened to 20,000 times from cd it would probably not earn you money to buy any 8dio stuff either. I guess this would equal the sales of about 500 cd s, depending on how many times each cd is listened to. Many times this would hardly reach “break even” for a record deal. People seem to forget that 20k streams is not the same as selling 20k cds.
I have released about 20 records with different bands through the years. Some of them have been selling ok. None have sold less than 500. Still my income from record sales is very little compared to touring.
Streaming is still a fairly young part of the music business. It will take time as we have to educate a whole generation to pay for music instead of just downloading for free. I think streaming has a potential as both Spotify and a few other streaming services I have tested out, delivers a really good product. I dont know anyone who has got their iPods loaded with illegal mp3`s anymore. Most of my friends are paying for premium memberships with some kind of streaming service. That is at least a giant step in the right direction.
But as I said, there is no doubt that the income from streaming is to low. There is no doubt that Spotify is still a better service for the listener than the musicians. The world of streaming is far from perfect. But the industry is growing. Earnings from streaming is growing every year. I think we have to stay patient for a few more years.
There seem to be quite some outrage about DI’s suggestions and his thoughts on the streaming model.. He is accused to disrupt the topic of the forum? I would not throw the stone at him, or treat him of troll.
On the contrary, he threw a stone in calm waters (French expression: Un pavé dans la marre). And I thank him for this. All the reactions here show that he did hit a nerve.
He’s not guilty, he is actually a victim: it appears that his reasoning is the result of intense corporation propaganda brainwashing. Unfortunately it is becoming the norm. This happens in every field of life, and since I am a composer, I witness it in our world too.
Has anybody seen the movie from 2006, the corporation? A corporation is according to the law, equivalent to a person with duties and rights. So the movie makes a psychological portrait of a corporation (understand here a company above a certain size) as if it were a real person based on its behavior within the community. Well, the diagnosis is quite worrying: A corporation has no other option than to be a psychopath, having lost all sense of right and wrong. The only objective is to make money (It is actually a statutory obligation in regards to the US law).
So DI (and others), do you really think music related companies think about composer rights, the sustainability of the music models, pleasing the customers and as a whole, about doing the right thing?
I don’t think so! This is not profitable on the short term (they often forget the long term don’t they ?). I have witnessed it first hand as a research chemist (my former job), this is why I quit and my hobby became my job, as I could not stand being an accomplice of what I consider as criminal agendas.
So when composers still have certain rights, like the 70 year period after death copyright, we should cling to these as hard as we can. If we don’t, corporations will make an incredibly profitable job in killing the golden egg goose. To be truthful and unfortunately pessimistic, since I entered the composer world a year ago, I see clearly that this is already happening.
DI is right on one thing: we should unite, but not for the purposes he suggests.
We should unite to fight what is slowly but surely killing the profession (streaming models, YT/Adverb like monetization as it is organized today, privately managed copyright systems as YT ID-content, organized races to the bottom, giving away writers shares to publishers (themselves being manipulated by large clients), PRO bypass systems, etc…)
The US DOJ is reviewing the regulations that are (more-or-less) hamstringing ASCAP and BMI from raising royalty rates for streaming services like Pandora and Spotify. Until the PROs can treat streaming broadcasts just like any other broadcast, services will be able to get away with paying these pitiful songwriting/publishing royalties.
I don’t expect a miracle, though. How much has the landscape changed in just the last decade? In 2004, there was no YouTube. iTunes had only just launched for Windows. There were precious few outlets to legally purchase digital music. Now the landscape includes a hefty handful of streaming services, internet radio, live and recorded streaming programming, not to mention “traditional” downloads. By the time the rules are re-written, the target will have moved again–somebody else will have found a way to pay as little as possible for as much as possible.
Baby steps, I guess?
Thanks for the info AlpacaRoom. I am curious to see what reforms will come of that.
Do you have an idea if Europeans PRO’s (I’m PRS) have similar legal restrictions in terms of claiming royalties from corporations (incl. US ones)?
The income from streaming is to low, no doubt about that. But with all respect, if your songs were listened to 20,000 times from cd it would probably not earn you money to buy any 8dio stuff either.
Kenny, if you had 20,000 plays on Radio in the UK the numbers are below
Anything from £789,200 to £28,400. Ok we all know the arguement that Spotify claims, but the disparity in the figures, even for one smallish territory are astonishing.
per 3 min track
Radio 1,2,3,4 and 5 – £39.46
Capital Radio London GLR – £6.05
GMR (Greater Manchester Radio) – £1.42
BBC TV Network – £226.71
ITV Network – £309.54
@ Denis
Yeah I know this and the numbers are about the same here. But the subject I adressed was streaming royalties compared to cd sales. At least in my corner of the world streaming is mostly competing with cd sales. I cant see how you can compare royalties from streaming vs radioplay. 20 000 plays on radio is a lot airtime wich very few artists get the pleasure of. But 20 000 streams on spotify is actually not that much.
Radioplay is a whole differnt story and over here it pays quite good royalties to both the composers and each individual musician on the track.
But I think we all agree that the royalties from streaming is still to low. I just think there is a reason to stay optimistic for a few more years, and there is also companies out there that pays better than Spotify.
Eduardo, your last paragraph is exactly right. Couldn’t agree more. Well said.
In regards to Desire Inspires, or Yadgyu, or Tramel Willis or whatever troll name he currently goes by he falls into the same category as corporations. A mindless entity spewing false information to gain some sort of false credibility.
I have been on the receiving end of his uninformed libelous attacks many times and I really do not think he deserves a voice in this forum. That is my opinion and I am voicing it here. He has voiced his opinion about me enough times… you have to stand up for yourself at some point.do you really think music related companies think about composer rights, the sustainability of the music models, pleasing the customers and as a whole, about doing the right thing?
Yes, there are companies who do value the composer and their rights. I know this as a fact. But sadly it is becoming increasingly clear that there are less and less of them.
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