Home › Forums › General Questions › Is Jingle Punks dead?
- This topic has 142 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by Art Munson.
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August 16, 2012 at 12:14 pm #6383GregGuest
Over the past year or so I got the impression jp made are large chunk of their $ from whatever blanket deals they made and their in house composers.
They used to send out a quarterly email listing which artists had front end payments. The two times I saw it sent, I doubt there were 20 or 30 composers listed. That appears to me a very small number for three months of placements.
They built a large, non-exclusive library of songs that can be used as a “loss leader” of sorts. Get clients in the door with gratis deals, blanket licences and the like, then pitch the in house stuff. The non-exclusive stuff didn’t cost JP anything and their new clients got good deals to0.
I am no expert on this, but just my uniformed opinion.
That said, jp has been the only place I have had luck with. I have gotten about 20 placements with them over that first year (with around 40-50 cues). So far, only a couple appear to be gratis, but I am working on those to be sure.
August 16, 2012 at 1:15 pm #6384Art MunsonKeymaster“Maybe Art is the new in house composer for them out in LA and he is sworn to secrecy.”
Ha, I wish! Then again, who knows what that means. One JP e-mail asked for “young and hungry composers” in L.A. I certainly don’t fit that (neither young nor particularly hungry).
“what are you thinking you will do Art?”
Still trying to decide. I answered their e-mail but haven’t seen a thing.
August 16, 2012 at 2:01 pm #6385brentGuestHas JP or anyone else sited evidence of fact that these networks will no longer use non-exclusive content after the end of this year? Have they shared documented quotes, formal letters or emails from the people that run the music departments at these networks? How do we know this isn’t a fabrication intended to squeeze artists into offering up all their content without a guarantee of license or advance?
Perhaps it’s completely true but I think verifiable evidence should be presented whenever such bold statements are made – especially if such rights restrictions are being requested for no advances on often gratis (backend only) deals.
August 16, 2012 at 2:58 pm #6386sad about JPGuestMore people are posting on the JP’s forum asking questions about the exclusive deal…They should probably just shut the forum down if they aren’t going to answer people…or people should realize that they haven’t responded in close to a month and posting a new topic isn’t going to make a difference…Whatever the case, kinda seems like bad PR, and is making my decision easier by the day. Sorry if this seems like I’m complaining…but as my name says…..I’m “sad about JP” :/
August 16, 2012 at 4:04 pm #6387woodsdenisParticipantMichael Nickolas made some very valid observations on the previous page. Their press release regarding their new exclusive library is very ambiguous and confusing with regard to the overall state of JP as it stands now. They are clearly not communicating well with their existing composers. There is no point double guessing what they are going to do. I for one am not going to make any decisions until the dust settles and some kind of response is forthcomming.
August 16, 2012 at 4:27 pm #638956 StratParticipant” Looking for young and hungry composers in L.A. ” …. hmmmmm …… well , IMHO that says a lot about their intentions ……. that sounds like …. lets go after the inexperienced greenhorns because we expect many experienced and wise composers probably won’t go for this new deal !!! But then again I could be totally wrong, who knows for sure, hey ??
August 17, 2012 at 1:19 am #6390SomeOneGuestI hope they give some food to their hungry composers 🙂
August 17, 2012 at 7:30 am #6391twirlParticipantIf I see Crucial Music going saying they are going “exclusive” I will then be concerned. So far this has not happened. Seeing that they are one of the first and most connected non-exclusive libraries, if they don’t go exclusive then no one should be afraid. Libraries are not publishers, please do not sign your tracks exclusive with a library without an up front fee and a term. Even the smallest publishers give advances and short term contracts.
August 17, 2012 at 7:43 am #6393AdviceParticipantI’ve been told from a reliable source that Crucial has no intention of going exclusive, at least not for the forseeable future. They are very committed to the non-exclusive model.
What I’ve been hearing has been the problem has more to do with libraries like JP that rely heavily on blanket deals (Crucial does not do blankets). TV shows are signing multiple blanket deals only to find they are getting the same tracks from those different libraries (e.g. JP, SK, etc)… Budget-wise, this is very non-cost-effective. They feel like they are paying 2-3 times for the same thing. If the TV networks tell libraries like JP that they won’t do blanket deals anymore unless the tracks are exclusive, JP and others will simply have no choice. A large chunk of their business model depends on this.
As far as JP making this up as a scare tactic, that’s ridiculous. We may not like it and be disappointed, but accusing them of outright lying is very inappropriate. These possible changes in the industry are very real. I’ve heard it from at least 3-4 libaries and publishers the past 2 years. Many non-exc libraries we deal with have started exclusive catalogs for the same reason.
Deep breath, take it slow… See where the dust all settles. 😀
August 17, 2012 at 10:50 am #6394AdviceParticipantWe all have the option of not signing non-exclusives with no up-front money, especially if there are long commitments. I know I wouldn’t unless I felt the library truly offered me something better than I could get doing what am currently doing with non-exclusive.
That being said, it’s easy to get huffy and think we, as composers, have all the power. Reality is supply and demand is not in our favor. There are many thousands of people churning out great tracks from home studios, willing to do anything just to get their music out there. If exclusive without upfront became the only way, I don’t think libraries would have a shortage of music. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
August 17, 2012 at 11:23 am #6396MichaelLParticipantRandom lawyer thoughts:
The biggest issue for writers, if Advice is correct (and I believe the he/she is) is, what happens to tracks that are already in multiple non-exclusive libraries that do blanket deals? (Edit: btw don’t forget to add Pump to that list.)
If the networks don’t want to pay for the same tracks twice (they don’t), at some point the slate is going to have to be wiped clean. Whether or not writers will be able to remove their re-titled tracks from libraries and convert them to exclusive tracks with one or more libraries is the crux the matter.
The worst possible scenario is that these tracks will be considered “damaged goods.” Remember that the re-titled tracks are not assets, they have no actual value to the library. The easiest course of action for a library would be to simply let the re-titled tracks “die on the vine.” The most difficult approach will be to convert non-exclusive tracks to exclusive, because it would involve verifying that each track is no longer available in any other library. Time is money, and if the library already has an exclusive catalog, there is little incentive to choose the latter option.
There is a parallel trend that I’ve noticed, among the libraries moving toward exclusive content. They are establishing a core group of de facto “in house” writers. There’s still no up-front money, but one writer that I know justifies it because the placements and odds of placement are better.
In short, we may be witnessing the end of the free-for-all flood. Ultimately, it’s the consumer that’s in the driver’s seat, and they’ve had enough.
August 17, 2012 at 1:03 pm #6400Art MunsonKeymasterAdvice said:
“What I’ve been hearing has been the problem has more to do with libraries like JP that rely heavily on blanket deals (Crucial does not do blankets). TV shows are signing multiple blanket deals only to find they are getting the same tracks from those different libraries (e.g. JP, SK, etc)… Budget-wise, this is very non-cost-effective. They feel like they are paying 2-3 times for the same thing. If the TV networks tell libraries like JP that they won’t do blanket deals anymore unless the tracks are exclusive, JP and others will simply have no choice. A large chunk of their business model depends on this.”
I think this is exactly what this is all about, not some big exclusive versus non-exclusive situation that extends throughout the industry. These libraries (JP, SK, etc) are saturated and they’re trying to capture as much of the market as they can and blanket licenses are a great way to do that when they don’t have to pay anything upfront for content but the end customers for these blanket licenses are certainly not going to be happy when they see a lot of redundancy between libraries. Hence, exclusivity. There’s such a great supply of music that I’m sure they have no doubt that they will continue being able to meet the demand and they are attractive to composers regardless because they produce results. It really seems to me to be about how these particular libraries are doing business rather than a mass exodus from the use of non-exclusive tracks.
In my own experience I’ve been fortunate enough to contribute directly to some cable shows through a music house on a work-for-hire basis. Right alongside these exclusive tracks I’ve directly licensed other cues of mine to the same shows that are in non-exclusive libraries. I remember the first time that I did this I felt confident that I had the track they were looking for but it was in a couple of non-exclusives so I was nervous about presenting it and so I “warned” the music supervisor. I was taken aback by his reaction which was to basically laugh and say “Why would they care, if they like the track they’ll license it?” And they did. And it was no big deal. Since then I’ve had quite a few interactions and gotten to see some things and what I’ve seen leads me to believe that it’s much more about getting the show done on time and on budget with the best production possible than adhering to any particular licensing approach. Different people at different production companies seem to have different ideas as how to best do this and I’m sure that budgets and deadlines vary greatly. In the end they probably just want to get the job done with minimal hassle and problems.
What I’m trying to say here is that I think the business is much more complex and nuanced than it ends up being portrayed on this forum sometimes and that within that complexity there’s room for all the different modes of doing business. I don’t think that JP and SK shifting their focus means that there’s necessarily a global shift in the industry. It just means that those particular entities have realized that they can capitalize on an opportunity and that they are leveraged to do so.
Remember that there are hundreds of production companies feeding shows to all the networks and that all of these companies have their own focuses and proclivities. Some are much more inclined toward branding their shows with exclusive music than others. Some spend thousands per episode on music and some spend hundreds. Some use libraries, some use music houses and supplement with library tracks. The only constant seems to be the ever shifting nature of it all as everyone clamors to stay afloat.
August 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm #6401MichaelLParticipantEh…..never mind.
August 17, 2012 at 2:36 pm #6402MichaelLParticipantI re-read the post on the JP blog. Here’s the bottom-line:
“We are creating two libraries to best serve the marketplace. Both will be accessible to our clients through our popular Jingle Punks Player technology.”
“The new Exclusive Library will stand alongside Jingle Punks’ existing standard library.”
As alluded to above, by Kiwi, there are those who care about re-titling and those who don’t. JP is doing the smart thing and covering both ends of the market.
Things may actually be pretty much status quo for writers in JP’s “existing standard library,” except that some customers will undoubtedly shift to the exclusive library. That may mean fewer placements for writers in the “standard” library, who were getting placements with JP customers who make the move. If all of your placements were coming from the customers who aren’t concerned about re-titling, you may not notice any difference.
August 17, 2012 at 6:38 pm #6404NYC producerGuestHi everyone; wish I had found this thread earlier. There are a few things I’d like to speak to…
I’m a freelance producer/engineer here in NYC. I’m in a unique situation in that I have fairly regular access to a high-end studio. I’d seen the artists’ budgets shrink so badly over the last several years, while at the same time I was learning about the benefits of publishing revenue. Fast-forward to 2011, and I had developed a relationship with JP. We were working on a co-pub deal of sorts that would basically see me providing them with a large catalog of music I would be sourcing from some of the indie artists I was working with. In a nutshell, I would work with broke, talented artists in exchange for a percentage of any sync revenue; I would then offer some of these artists’ tracks to JP, in a non-exclusive context, and they would re-title them with the previously mentioned “JP” designation, giving me an unspecified % of their revenue (we were negotiating somewhere in the 10-15% range). This project took a lot of work on my end—rallying my artists, educating them about the world of sync licensing, music publishing, and copyright law, meeting with lawyers, and, most importantly, taking on session work I believed in on a reduced rate, in hopes that I would make the money back down the road. EJ was my contact at JP throughout the entire process, and he was such a pleasure to work with. After about six months of work, right when we were about to sign a contract with JP, they let EJ go, and suddenly I was dealing with a higher-up in the company. They so casually shifted the tone of the conversation to, “We want to go exclusive,” and I was completely blindsided and F’d; all my artists panicked, and the list of songs they were willing to offer me shrunk so dramatically that is just didn’t make sense any more.
There’s a part of me that’s bitter about it, and another part that says, “Eh, it’s just business.” Live and learn, you know? I have to say that it gives me a strange sort of comfort to know that their decision to go exclusive with my library was nothing personal, that it was part of a larger plan.
A few other points I want to respond to from this thread:
-I believe that the majority of the “Jingle Punks Hipster Orchestra” is made up of their in-house writers; I also believe they account for the lion’s share of placements for the company.
-I personally don’t see exclusivity being a huge deal-breaker with most music supervisors. From my experience, it’s more about placing the right song at the right cost. I think exclusivity is certainly an added incentive for everyone involved, particularly in personally negotiated deals (where the publisher/copyright owner can get a larger sync fee for an exclusive placement). A lot of the “2nd tier” networks—Bravo, A&E, etc—have so much incidental background music that is forgotten the moment it hits your ears, I just don’t think too many people really care if that music is on another show. I think exclusivity is more important on the “marquee” shows—the major networks, and the hits on FX, AMC, HBO, Showtime, etc.
-The layoff/firing (I don’t know the details) of EJ is really a bummer. There was a great, positive guy who had a gift for making starving artists feel valued and appreciated. Not sure what led to his departure, but I certainly missed working with him after his exit.
-A few posts have mentioned blanket deals with major networks. FWIW, when I would have meetings in the office, I was able to pick up little tidbits of information from my surroundings. So this should be taken with a grain of salt, but I definitely saw and heard things that led me to believe they were getting a small handfull of 4-and-5-figure checks from specific network shows—which would point to blanket deals from, say, “The View” (not an actual name I saw). Again, this last point is just pure speculation, but I don’t think they own any single track that would command a $15K license.
-I do agree that the “let ’em die on the vine approach” makes the most sense with regard to any dead-weight tracks they have. They’re a really small operation—only about 20 people in the NYC office. The man-hours spent tracking down and confirming exclusivity of all previously owned tracks just doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Best of luck to everyone who has music in the JP library. I hope they’re able to get someone back in charge of artist relations who can hold a candle to EJ.
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