Home › Forums › General Questions › Is Jingle Punks dead?
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August 20, 2012 at 1:11 pm #6453GregGuest
Thanks MichaelL, I did not know that. Came across this info while searching.
August 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm #6455MichaelLParticipant@Greg the article that you linked from FMM says the following:
“1. Work with some qualified music attorneys familiar with film and television work to develop some standard contract language to cover these areas and provide reasonable, fair royalties for composers in these circumstances.”
Unfortunately, Scott was never part of any contract negotiations with the producer. His intellectual property was given away, and his right to control the public performance of his works denied because of his deal with JP.
The real question, then, is was it worth it? Has Scott made enough money from other placements of THAT piece of music to cover his loss of royalties from this transaction? If not, he essentially gave away his property rights and the only winners are JP and the DVD producer. Reminds me of the story of Jack and the Beanstalk. As long as composers are willing sell the “cow” for a handful of beans, you can expect uncompensated placements to be commonplace.
August 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm #6456GregGuestI guess I should have mentioned the part I found interesting. Basically, nobody (or almost nobody) whose music gets used on dvd’s gets paid.
Sad, really.
btw, I just got the exclusive addendum in my email. Haven’t read through it yet though…
August 20, 2012 at 8:09 pm #6457Michael NickolasParticipantI had a piece used in the show JAG a few years back, through a library. I received a sync fee for the program placement and a second payment when the show was was released on DVD. How times have changed…
August 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm #6458SteveGuestHere is an interesting bit of info I found out today from a very reliable and well connected source that essentially confirms my previous suspicions. I can’t name any names unfortunately, so take it for what its worth:
Apparently, ABC is the only network that has an actual problem with non-exclusive tracks. The other major networks only have a problem with paying a BLANKET LICENSE for non-exclusive tracks because they don’t want to pay multiple times for the same music (as Advice pointed out earlier in this thread). A gratis license license, or paying an individual sync fee per track that they use from a non-exclusive source they don’t have a problem with it seems.
So, when JP said that all of those networks were no longer going to license music from non-exclusive libraries, that appears to be not entirely true. They are going to stop paying non-exclusive libraries blanket licenses. They are NOT going to stop using non-exclusive music all together as the Jingle Punks email suggested.
Plain and simple, JP doesn’t want to give up those blanket license fees. I certainly don’t blame them, however, I’m NOT planning on signing many (if any) tracks exclusively with them.
I’d say its fairly common knowledge how Jingle Punks works. The majority of placements and money cues go to the in-house composers. For example, Jared does most of the themes and major commercial spots. Their “artist library” gets used as filler and takes a back seat basically. I’ve always been OK with this because they get decent placements and its a NON-exclusive deal. No biggie.
Now, however, they want to perpetuate this same situation with an EXCLUSIVE deal. Eh… Not worth it IMO. The other libraries I work with treat all composers’ music the same and send out jobs for theme songs as well as music that provides a nice buy out fee (in other words, big $$$ placements). I especially would not enter into an exclusive deal with Jingle Punks if I was an independent artist or band. Talk about a terrible deal. Thats like something out of the movies.
Its everybody’s individual decision in regards to what they are going to do about the JP thing of course. But keep in mind, there are no advances, little to no sync fees, and more than likely the music that you lock up in an exclusive agreement with them will be put on the back burner.
August 20, 2012 at 8:56 pm #6459eucaGuestThey also stated in their email that you could have a choice with your existing songs to put them exclusive or not, but if you sign the exclusive ALL future songs would fall under the exclusive contract. Hmmmmm.
August 20, 2012 at 9:49 pm #6349bigg romeGuestThis is horrible. Music Dealers is about to BLOW UP!.
August 20, 2012 at 9:50 pm #6376SomeOneGuestSteve, you are right 100%!
This is exactly what I was thinking. In the end, its all depends on the composers, maybe if we make enough noise and convince other composers not to sign their tracks exclusively with no upfront fee to this new horrible model, then they will just have no choice but to pay or come back to the non exclusive model.
Even if we only convince 40% of all composers it will hit them hard enough. Its 40% less tracks. We just need to show all TV composers that the libreries are winning big by having our tracks signed to their library for FREE and also limit our possibilities with other libraries. So we lose, every composer will make little money and the library will make TON of money out of us, this is just Fuck*ing wrong.
If the guys from JP or other libraries are reading this, let me just ask you:
How can you do that to all of the composers who put out a lot of hours just for you? Yes the music biz is the hardest one, but demm, have some dignity.
If you keep treat composers this way, you will be left with NONE
August 20, 2012 at 10:15 pm #6465Art MunsonKeymasterI just sent an e-mail to JP and asked if they would like to respond. We’ll see…
August 21, 2012 at 2:53 am #6467IanGuestIt was bound to happen wasn’t it? If you keep chucking thousands and thousands of crappy tracks into the system it is going to go pop. It is like a toilet getting blocked.
When will you guys realize that you are going about this completely the wrong way. In the library business, mediocrity is not rewarded these days. The occasional license on some obscure satellite channel does not a career in library music make.
My simple advice to you would be to stop using samples and invest in real performers. On top of that try and find an individual style rather than sounding like 2 million oth guys out there.
August 21, 2012 at 5:20 am #6469AdviceParticipantIan
While I agree with you that commitment to quality is key, I don’t think you can define quality based on live vs. samples. That is, if by “samples” you mean anything virtual and not live. We certainly know very experienced composers who make a living (including major placements in film and network) and use zero or near zero live performers.
But yes… mediocre tracks result in pennies earned. Quality is the one thing you can control. Now more than ever, it’s critical to up your game. If you can’t do it alone, network with other composers for collaborative efforts. Get your tracks in libraries that are not in the blanket market. No one said it would be easy.
😀
August 21, 2012 at 6:19 am #6471MichaelLParticipantIan…
I think you mean simplistic advice. If someone has an individual style, but writes electronica, exactly which “real performers” would you have them hire? I’ve already pointed out Zack Hemsey’s “Mind Heist” as a cue done with samples in his apartment that will make him nearly 7 figures.
I recently got paid the equivalent of a few hundred “placements” to produce an orchestral collection for an exclusive library…using samples. Samples only get better every day. You are simply missing the boat.
But…the real issue here, is that your “advice” isn’t particularly relevant to a discussion of the Jingle Punks business model.
First, I’m going to guess that you are from the UK. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. The library business is a world unto itself over there. You have different aesthetics, are governed by different rules and regulations AND real performers are a lot less expensive.
Now let’s look at the big picture.
1) The vast majority of writers on this forum are not professional composers. They barely make enough money to justify continuing. How, and why, do you expect them to hire “real performers?”
2) Many of the writers here are “artists” who write “songs.” They are in the licensing business, not the library business, as you most likely think of it, e.g. the KPM world.
3) It is nearly impossible for 99% of writers to get into a library that will pay for production costs.
4) Please tell us an area where the use of samples and/or hybrid orchestration doesn’t dominate? Please don’t say BBC documentaries.
5) The libraries themselves often ask for music that “sounds like.” How do you suggest that a writer develop his/her individual style when the mass market demands imitation rather than innovation?
6) Many professional writers throw cues into this arena (mass market) to generate another revenue stream.
Perhaps you have a skill set and greater financial resources than the writers whom you believe are “going about it all wrong.” Kudos to you. Be grateful, but please don’t look down on others for trying.
August 21, 2012 at 9:52 am #6476sad about JPGuestbringing this discussion back full circle, JP’s are still not answering their forum or responding to emails. I know someone in this thread said they finally received the exclusive contract, I’m still waiting, after a couple emails to them :/
I know the consensus is to just be patient until the dust settles, but if they’ve already moved out of town and there are tumbleweeds blowing across the street, how long does one stay and keep hoping that someone comes back?
August 21, 2012 at 10:38 am #6477AdviceParticipantIt could be they are overwhelemed right now with all the artists calling and emailing about this exclusive issue. It’s only about a week since this announcement. Maybe in a few weeks, when things calm down, things will return to more “normal”… We shall see. Breathe in… Breathe out…
The bottom line is, like it or not, JP’s business model is built around blanket license deals and they will do what they need to survive. And we all have free choice as to which libraries to put our music in. Their deal was non-exclusive up to now and their contract is fairly short term, meaning pulling tracks (if you choose to) is easy. No one’s been harmed and many of us had placements. Dissapointed, but not harmed…
I’ve always known that their model gives strong preference to their in house team as composers. But on the positive side, that opened lots of doors for the rest of us. They were able to build good relationships with the right people. If, for example, Jingle Jared custom composed a theme for a TV show and as a result of that was able to get a blanket licensing deal for the rest of the library, I’m VERY OK with that. In fact, happy about it.
I’m much more interested in what happens in the industry as a whole than what’s going on with JP.
😀
August 21, 2012 at 8:11 pm #6487SteveGuest“It could be they are overwhelemed right now with all the artists calling and emailing about this exclusive issue. It’s only about a week since this announcement. Maybe in a few weeks, when things calm down, things will return to more “normal”… We shall see. Breathe in… Breathe out…”
I agree. They’ll get to it when they can. No big deal.
“I’ve always known that their model gives strong preference to their in house team as composers. But on the positive side, that opened lots of doors for the rest of us. They were able to build good relationships with the right people. If, for example, Jingle Jared custom composed a theme for a TV show and as a result of that was able to get a blanket licensing deal for the rest of the library, I’m VERY OK with that. In fact, happy about it.”
I’m fine with this too under a non-exclusive model. Actually the theme and commercials I really don’t care about either way as those sometimes end up being more trouble than they are worth (unless you are for sure going to get the theme/commercial, which is rare). What bothers me is signing a track exclusively that will be sent to the back of the line basically… leaving you with the majority of your placements being on OWN or Style or even worse, being used under a direct license to HGTV or something. I guess if you have no other contacts you’ve gotta do what you gotta do, but if you’re like me and you have exclusive library deals that pay an advance and/or put your exclusive tracks to the front of the line (or at least on equal footing with the rest of their catalog)… then why sign a large number of tracks to Jingle Punks exclusively? I’d imagine I’ll sign a few exclusive tracks with JP, but it will be a fairly small amount just to see how things go. If they make me a ton of money on them, then I’ll send more.
“I’m much more interested in what happens in the industry as a whole than what’s going on with JP.”
Agreed.
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