Libraries that accept without listening

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  • #5980 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    I’m wondering how others react to this. It’s happened before and it’s just happened again: I submitted to a library (standard 50/50 non-exclusive type) and they got back to me with “We listened and we love your music and we want to represent it”. When I go the site where the music is hosted and look at the counter it’s clear that they listened to less than 10 seconds of one track (there are many there), so they didn’t really listen. On one hand, it feels wrong to start any business relationship with a blatant dishonesty, benign as it may be. On the other hand, since it’s a non-exclusive and I can continue to shop the tracks around to other non-exclusives, perhaps it doesn’t matter so much. It either sells or it doesn’t regardless of whether they listened to it.

    Right now, I’m leaning toward not working with them since I’m afraid that being associated with companies that will accept anything blindly could possibly devalue my work but I’m still relatively inexperienced with non-exclusives so I’m not yet trusting my instincts completely. My experience up to this point is mostly with direct licensing, work-for-hire and exclusives that don’t operate this way. Along the way I’ve ended up with a catalog that I think would work well in a handful of non-exclusives and I’m still trying to figure out what’s normal and good in that particular world.

    Thoughts? Insights?

    #5981 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Ha! Hopefully It’s obvious that I meant to type “without listening” in the title. Silly fingers… It would be nice if you could edit these things if you make a mistake…

    #5984 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    “Ha! Hopefully It’s obvious that I meant to type “without listening” in the title. Silly fingers…”

    Got that fixed for you.

    #5985 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Thanks, Art!

    #5986 Reply
    MichaelL
    Participant

    @Kiwi

    You may be over-thinking a bit too much. The exclusives that I’ve dealt with haven’t said we don’t want your music because you’re in royalty free libraries too. They serve two different markets. What some exclusives DO NOT like is writers who participate in the retitling model (because they are in direct competition).

    I think that choosing to put music into a high end or low end situation is a business decision, and most sophisticated publishers will recognize that. People worry too much that putting music into RF libraries will some how tarnish their “brand,” like  they’re the next John Williams. My advice is to take a deep breath, do a reality check, and then don’t pass up on viable revenue streams.

    Howard Shore started out playing sax in the Canadian pop-rock band Lighthouse. When it came time to score Lord of the Rings, no-one said “sorry Howard, you tarnished your brand in the pop band.”

    There are some very good writers, who do high end work, who have material in royalty free libraries, Mark Petrie and Jason Livesey, among them. If you are really concerned, use a pseudonym. But, in the end, it’s just business.

    #5987 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    @ MichaelL

    Thanks for your response. I was specifically asking about folks feelings and thoughts toward libraries that accept music without listening to it first. Let me attempt to clarify, I already have music in both non-exclusive and royalty free libraries. I’m not wrestling with that particular business decision and I don’t think I’m “above” any particular business model. The non-exclusive and RF libraries that I’m with did listen to my music first and the royalty free library I’m with is actually very active during the composition process. I just have concerns about a library that doesn’t seem to care but otherwise presents itself well. I would think that that attitude could possibly reflect back on it’s contributors but that’s where I’m not sure and I’m asking for insight and/ or experience here.

     

    #5988 Reply
    MichaelL
    Participant

    Prime candidate for lesser material under a pseudonym!

    #5989 Reply
    Blind
    Participant

    I personally wouldn’t do a deal with someone who is so unconcerned about the quality of their catalog that they wouldn’t listen for more than 10 seconds. That sounds like someone just trying to build up a “quantity over quality” library.

    #5990 Reply
    wilx2
    Guest

    sometimes you have to weigh the fact that they might not listen against how easy it is to pull the track.  for example, with MD, you put a track up, and it’s there.  i don’t believe they listen at that stage.  so your instinct might be to do the math, conclude that this library must be absolutely massive, and then decide it’s not worth it.  but what i remind myself is that any track i want to have removed from there can be done in a month’s time which is very short; so for now, I’m trying it out with them.  I’m not sure what the term length is of the library you have in mind, but that might be something to factor in.

    #5991 Reply
    MichaelL
    Participant

    I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. The fact is that nearly everyone with a computer and a copy of Garage Band is submitting cues to libraries. NO ONE has time to listen to it all.

    Often, I’m in the editing suite when editors are choosing music for a show. THEY make decisions within 10 or 15 seconds. When I’m given tracks, I might listen to half a cue, tops. I can tell right away if it is or isn’t going to work. The first thing that I’m listening for is the sonic quality. Next is whether or not it “grabs” me.

    No one is going to listen to an entire track to find out if you know the difference between a Neapolitan 6th and a Neapolitan pizza, or if the bridge is where the cue suddenly gets interesting.

    The kind of library that you’re talking about just wants cues that meet a minimum level of sonic quality.

     

    #5992 Reply
    wilx2
    Guest

    right – the creme de la creme will rise to the top, no matter the size of the library, or even if it’s listened to on the way in.

    #5994 Reply
    Blind
    Participant

    With all due respect there is a lot of difference between the end user (editor) making a decision in 10 sec regarding whether something works for their particular project and the supplier of the music (library) listening to 10 seconds of an entire catalog that he plans to represent. Your mention of pizza led me to a restaurant example: there is a difference between the customer taking one bite of something to decide whether he likes it or not and the restaurant owner taking one bite of a chef’s food and hiring him to cook 100 items on a menu. People make (good) quick decisions all of the time, but factor in motive on this one – there is a motivation in the music library business to increase quantity. That’s the point I was making.

    #5995 Reply
    MichaelL
    Participant

    @blind. I agree with you.

    But…this is a many tiered business. It cannot be made up of just elite libraries with high end catalogs.

    To carry through the food analogy, there are five star restaurants and then there’s fast food. They serve two different clientele.  The low end is merely about volume. That’s just business. McDonald’s is about selling billions of burgers.

    So, yes there are libraries that are very particular about who and what gets into their catalogs (and they pay for it).  And then, there are the libraries that merely warehouse tracks. They are the musical equivalent of supermarkets. They are not going to listen to individual tracks, anymore than the president of Giant Supermarkets is going to taste every brand of soup it sells. They are merely a sales platform for commercially viable product. Someone on this forum once said that no matter how crappy your music is someone will buy it. At that level it is just a commodity.

    Two very different worlds.

    Edit: my personal feeling is that most composers need to think like corporations and create product for all levels of the market.

     

    #5998 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Thanks to everyone for your responses!

    #6003 Reply
    Michael Nickolas
    Participant

    >”We listened and we love your music and we want to represent it”<

    Is it possible that their critical listening comes later? For example, you do the paperwork and upload say 30 cues. They listen to your uploads and reject 15 of them? So this initial listening of just 10 seconds was only to get you to the next step?

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