Questions on edits…..

[ChuckMott]

I have tried to address this question on my own, but am having some trouble wrapping my mind around it…..are there tempos that are perfect for locking in edits for various scenarios, for examples, 8 bars with, say a 3 second ring out, and for a dead stop? For 12 or 16 bars? Ditto for 30 Secs and 60 Secs? I have tried to wrap my mind around it but don’t think I am quite there….probably not a one size fits all because these tempos may not work for every piece but this seems like it may be the easiest solution? Any thoughts from the edit masters amongst us 🙂 ?

[ChuckMott]

And yes I can do the math but it doesn’t seem like 120 BPM and their subdivisions is always the answer for those dead stops…or is it? Seems I thought so, but in practice…

[MichaelL]

Every bar does not have to have the same amount of beats. Every phrase does not have to have 4 bars.

For example, sometimes you have a one or two beat pick-up, or a fraction of a bar ring-out, or one bar repeats to make a 5 bar phrase.

Think outside the box.

When you’re talking about short edits, like 60, 30, 15…they are for ads, which means that you can’t have a long intro…maybe a bar then “cut to the chase.”

Edits are a condensed form. There’s little time for development. The good news is that after a while your ear gets accustomed to making edits in a more musical way.

[Art Munson]

Think outside the box.

+1. In a sense, with judicious cuts, you are re-arranging. I always edit from the master mix. You need to make sure you have a nice sustain or sting on the last note (of the master mix) that you can cut and past to the end of your alt edits.

[Kubed]

if you set your bpm at 128 and have 8 or 16 bars straight (no intro or ring out bars),you’ll get exactly 30 or 60 secs (yes,i do a lot of house/club tracks!).
So,if you have tracks at 130-134 bpm in stead,you might find it easy to cut 60 & 30 edits,including a short intro and ring out.

But you know what?in the end it’s what MichaelL & Art said.In most of the occasions you need to think outside the box and re-arrange the music in order to get a solid 60 sec edit.
At first i was struggling to get the edits,specially from the 128 bpm club music but now i find it a bit easier to re-arrange and i’m sure in the future it will be even easier.
In general,getting a good 60/30 edit shouldn’t be about the bpm but about the arrangement skills,that’s where i think i need more practise in order to get these edits easier.

[Edouardo]

Hi Chuck,

I agree fully with the responses above.

When writing a track I wouldn’t choose the bpm depending on the practicality of making edits once the track is complete. The bpm is part of the initial feel you have for your new composition.

I also had trouble at first making time edits, especially when say, a 30s, would correspond to nearly exactly a block like a chorus. But in the end, I always managed. And actually, the more the constraints, the more the edit can end up original and interesting. It can even outshine the main track! There are many “tricks” you learn along the way.

For instance you do not always need to fit all the bars of a section. You can let the beginning of the last bar be the ending… Which can give quite an interesting suspense in the air…

Actually, now, “edits” are an essential part of my workflow. I do not rush into it and integrate this work as fully part of the music prod process. . I get into creative mode, and exploit my new track to make many mini-tracks, with intro, main and outro. Sometimes, some arrangements on edits will end up sounding more cool than the original!

So yes, think out of the box, be creative and have fun doing it!

For info, in “Edit” Mode, I can do about 2 tracks a day (i.e. I end up with about 20 files). it takes me about 4-5 hours work for about 10-12 edits on one track (1 or more of each time edits i.e. 15s, 30s and 60s and stingers, narrative, underscore and a bunch of loops). Take also into account the modifications in mixing/mastering that might come for lighter edits like narratives and underscores.

[ChuckMott]

Thanks Eduardo. YEs the BPM approached I sort of abandoned because I didn’t like the idea of the changing the BPM and the feel of my track just to make it fit. On the other hand, sometimes , maybe, would lie to write 8 bars or whatever with that constraint, but not sure.

Eduardo I was wondering if you could comment on how that approach is working for you as far as coin that number of edits on a track to create those versions etc. I have seen done this done on some higher end library sites where there are as many as sixteen edits or more on a track. Are you finding that clients then go through and it increases the chance of getting picked up/used (I’m assuming that is the case and that is why you are doing it).

Coincidentally I am writing a track, that I think I will put up on my sound cloud page but today’s end, that is a good candidate for that sort of approach. This particular track has basically one theme but several variations as the track progresses and as background was my response to a library looking Explosions In The Sky sorts of material, which then led to me looking for a good quality delay – to make the story shorter, SoundToys Echoboy is all over this one and is one of the nicest delays I’ve had the pleasure of experimenting with. Track is called Fallout. Thanks Art and everyone else for the tips. Kubed thanks for those exacting tempos, that was the original question but equally glad to hear all the extended viewpoints on this stuff. Seems creating good and useable edits is it’s own art form that takes practice and experience (like everything else).

[Edouardo]

As you know Chuck I started one year ago, uploading my first track to my first library last year in end of August. I started immediately creating and uploading heaps of quality edits with each track. This library was very enthusiast about this approach so I continued. I still consider them as my center of operations!

I also figured out, that it can increase visibility, because the edits can be quite different from each other, and end up in different categories. i.e. living a life on their own. That only works for tracks with many variations (like the one you wrote you are working on). “duller” tracks will only get the standard 15s, 30s, 60s and stinger pack.

I started with about 10 tracks, and now have 40+ tracks out there. So an average of roughly 25 tracks offered over a year. You have to add a 0 to these numbers in terms of number of edits. Now, I must be approaching the 80-100 sales mark. Most of these sales are time edits (30s and 60s). I have about a sale every 2-3 days on average, although these come by packs. 5 in 2 days and nothing for a week or more, which is a phenomena I still am wondering about… And from time to time a massive 3 or 400$ sale (I receive between 40 and 50% out of that). Note also that I focus only on a few RF and NE libraries that I selected carefully: With all these edits, tagging can be quite painful, and I prefer spending time on the project studio ;-).

I cannot compare with a model where I would just have the full tracks on sale. Many composers seem to do that. For me, it is the edits that appear to get picked up most. Maybe I am shooting myself in the foot as I offer lower prices for the edits (60s: 75% full, 30s: 50-60% full, 15s: 40% full).

Maybe, maybe not, but for me the offering I propose appears to be working, and month after month, the ROI is growing, so for now I am sticking with it.

[ChuckMott]

I assume you have come across that most of these RF where you do your own tagging have a batch tagging option so you don’t have to tag every one from scratch? Your sales are killing by the way. DO you have a link to any of your music you wouldn’t mind sharing? Is o.k. if not, not everyone here like to do that.

[John]

Sounds good to me and I was particularly intrigued with the vox on Feeling Good!!!!

[Mark]

Are you finding that clients then go through and it increases the chance of getting picked up/used

From a library owner point of view the answer this question would be YES YES YES!!
Clients are constantly buying edits and constantly asking why there favorite composer is not providing edits (and loops and alternate mixes).
And in RF libraries if they have a way to package all these together for you (like we do) then what you can earn a lot more because the customer that doesn’t really care about the price of a track will always opt for the higher priced package of edits and loops.
All RF composer should be editing their music in my opinion. You are losing out on sales if you are not providing this service to your customers.

(60s: 75% full, 30s: 50-60% full, 15s: 40% full).

This is the exact formula I originally though would be good for edits packages and is kind of what I suggested to our composer when we first started.
Then I noticed that if they like the full length track then the 60 edit is only added value, there is no need to charge less for it.
I would suggest pumping up the prices of the edits and loops and stingers and then have one nice package price that makes you feel good and the customer feel good because he is getting all of these expensive edits for one low price.

Sorry If I am rambling, I just think about this stuff a lot 🙂

[Kubed]

@Mark actually this is quite useful info,you’re not rambling at all.

I thought the same about the 60 edits,having them at the same price as the full track doesn’t seem to affect my sales negatively.

The package price,i’m not sure;i usually have it at 50-60% of the total price
(for example,if the track + the edits sum up to $300,i put the pack offer
at $150-180 tops).Do you think it’s a good/bad offer?
Sorry if i’m getting off topic here!

[Mark Lewis]

This recent upload (from Art) to our site is a great example of where package and edit pricing seems to be going for our library.
http://www.musicloops.com/music-download/good-king-wenceslas-5005283/
This is what all composers should be doing, imho.
I really like this track as well.

[Edouardo]

Then I noticed that if they like the full length track then the 60 edit is only added value, there is no need to charge less for it.
I would suggest pumping up the prices of the edits and loops and stingers and then have one nice package price that makes you feel good and the customer feel good because he is getting all of these expensive edits for one low price.

Wow! That’s some interesting piece of info Mark!

I’ll definitely consider pumping up the time edits to 90, 75 and 60% of full track price and in parallel decrease the full track price. It should break even for me, and look more attractive to the customer.

Thanks!

[Kubed]

thanks for posting this,it’s a relly good example of a package presentation.

And a very nice holiday track as well!

[Author]

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