The FAQ does say "for a licence fee", not for free…

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  • #5708 Reply
    bigg rome
    Guest

    I would like to hear peoples thoughts on this…..

    From a JP songwriter….

    So I’m not crazy… the JP FAQ says this, word for word:
    “you give Jingle Punks the right to non-exclusively place your music in our clients media content worldwide for a license fee based on usage, clients budgets, etc. ”

    I never had the impression that Jingle Punks was mostly just giving our music away for free, and it seems a lot of people are not aware of that either, and now I see why – the site doesn’t say so. Maybe it says so buried in the legal contract that no one reads, but if the site contradicts that contract, which one applies?

    That’s not to say that I wouldn’t have signed up anyway, but it would certainly have helped manage expectations. My excitement at having a couple of songs placed in “the summer’s hottest show”, which airs across North America, dampened pretty quickly when I found out (only through digging through these boards) that not only would I receive no upfront licence fee, I’ve got a slim-to-none chance of even receiving PRO royalties. Add mine to the voices that are saying that Jingle Punks could/should be a little more upfront about this info, and it is not unreasonable to have expected a forthcoming upfront fee for a placement, since the FAQ specifically says “for a licence fee”, not for free…

    Also later in the FAQ it says “When we get paid for a placement we cut you a check for your fifty percent.” Note again it doesn’t say “IF” we get paid for a placement, “in the rare instance where we get paid for a placement”, etc… it says “WHEN”. I think these points, intentionally or not, are confusing people and actually contradict what JP staff are saying on these boards, which is not the greatest of business/communcations practices. A few suggestions:
    – the FAQ should reflect reality, e.g. clearly state that we are also licencing you to give away our music for free without any compensation whatsoever, upfront or via PRO in many instances (I realize that JP doesn’t control how the PRO’s distribute payments, but they are aware of how they work and the fact that for cable they only pay for a select 8 hours/quarter, which I’m sure a lot of people are not aware of) so it’s not unreasonable for them to be open about this info as well)
    – the reality should be more publicized, the only way I found out that JP is mostly giving my music away and that for the most part I have approx. 0.03% chance of ever getting paid *anything* (most placements seem to be cable, and for cable usage you only get PRO royalties *if* your song happens to play during the right 8 hours out of approx. 2196 hours every quarter, = 0.03% chance of payment).

    I think for JP to keep the trust and loyalty of their contributors, it would be nice if these contradictions were addressed/corrected.

    Also as other people have mentioned, in exchange for all this free music we are providing for JP to give away (and they are not collecting any subscription fees?), it would be nice to at least have some metrics or stats, be notified of usage (is it really too much to ask that a client provide reporting on when they’ve used the music that they’ve obtained for free? Is our music really of that little value?)

    Don’t get me wrong, JP is a nice service and I understand the issues they are facing in terms of “major label” artists undervaluing their work just to get placement, shows expecting things for free, etc., I just think JP could be doing a better job of clearly communicating how all this works, how many/what percentage of placements ever result in upfront fees, stats on search hits, downloads by song, etc… with this info we can make an informed decision about whether to join at all, what songs seem to be working best, etc… rather than just the random lottery it seems to be… upload your song to the black hole and hope your friend tells you about hearing it, or pay TuneSat $20-100/month to track the usage of your songs that you’re not getting paid for anyway… hm.

    Hopefully this is seen as the constructive criticism it is intended to be. Just thinking out loud, perhaps venting a little.

    Cheers,
    SKD

    http://support.jinglepunks.com/jinglepunks/topics/the_faq_does_say_for_a_licence_fee_not_for_free

    #5709 Reply
    concerned
    Guest

    yeah and i hear scorekeepers does the same but at least they pay the composers out of their own pocket

    #5710 Reply
    bigg rome
    Guest

    Really Scorekeepers pays out of there pocket. That is a first to hear.

    #5711 Reply
    woodsdenis
    Participant

    If you follow the link http://support.jinglepunks.com/jinglepunks/topics/the_faq_does_say_for_a_licence_fee_not_for_free

    which is at the end go bigg rome’s post there is an answer from JP about this. It seems a bit disingenuous to post a question on a different forum (MLR), without also posting the reply which in a large part corrects a lot of the assumptions made by the OP.

    #5713 Reply
    MichaelL
    Guest

    @Bigg Rome, you need to get hip to the fact that this is how a certain part of the licensing business
    operates. Some networks, like MTV, and shows (especially reality), generally DO NOT pay upfront sync fees. You ONLY get backend. So…if you want to get your cues onto MTV AND certain other types of programming, you’ve got to live with the fact that JP, Pump, Scorekeepers and others will provide your music to those users for FREE. That’s just the way THAT segment of the market works.

    #5714 Reply
    Greg
    Guest

    The concern is that JP provided music to some networks totally for free. My understanding is those gratis deals did not require cue sheets be submitted to the PRO. In those cases, music was used with absolutely no compensation (not even back end) to the composer.

    #5716 Reply
    Rosco
    Guest

    Yeah, I feel the real issue here is direct licensing the use of the library on Scripps channels (like Greg said). Not the licenses with no upfront fees that generate royalties. I have no problem with that since, unfortunately, that is the way this part of the licensing business is and how JP stays competitive (like Michael L mentioned).

    My concern is that JP told us four months ago in the forum that they were no longer issuing blanket licenses to Scripps Channels because they direct license and they don’t generate backend royalties. Those are now composed by their team composers supposedly. I was really excited about that news and it seems like Art and Michael Nickolas were too on the forum (based on link 1 below).

    I understand there is some push and pull for JP to keep expanding with production companies and music supervisors. They might have to deal with a music supervisor on a Scripps show that might also be the music supervisor for an MTV show. I get that but they are saying one thing and doing another (see link 2 below).

    There are two threads on the JP forum that JP artists should probably read in their entirety. It seems like a lot of JP artists aren’t even aware of this. I might just check their forums too much. Haha

    Both of these links recently got merged on their forum but link 2 doesn’t show up on link 1:

    1) This is the link already posted above: http://support.jinglepunks.com/jinglepunks/topics/the_faq_does_say_for_a_licence_fee_not_for_free

    2) http://support.jinglepunks.com/jinglepunks/topics/food_network_placements
    Still unanswered, I see Art and Greg have posted on this thread as well. I have a recent placement through them on the new season of Design Star (a week ago on HGTV, Scripps) and it seems that others on the thread above are having some new Scripps placements as well.

    JP is a great company and they do a wonderful job! I love working with them but I have noticed that since their old artist rep, Jingle EJ was either let go or quit back at the beginning of 2012 that their communication has really gone down the tube. They don’t seem to want to address the Scripps issue since the other posts get answered, slower than they used to. I just hope they will let the artists know what is going on soon. People keep posting but no one replies on this issue.

    Art: Have you had any issues with recent Scripps placements showing up on your Tunesat that are licensed through them?

    Anybody else have any updates or info on this?

    #5717 Reply
    bigg rome
    Guest

    MichaelL:
    @Bigg Rome, you need to get hip to the fact that this is how a certain part of the licensing business
    operates. Some networks, like MTV, and shows (especially reality), generally DO NOT pay upfront sync fees. You ONLY get backend. So…if you want to get your cues onto MTV AND certain other types of programming, you’ve got to live with the fact that JP, Pump, Scorekeepers and others will provide your music to those users for FREE. That’s just the way THAT segment of the market works.

    i know this … you are not speaking to a novice here. i just wanted people thoughts on this topic

    #5718 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Art: Have you had any issues with recent Scripps placements showing up on your Tunesat that are licensed through them?


    I do have placements on Design Star also. It’s too bad that this is happening but JP does get a lot of other placements, that do pay, so I guess we have to live with it.

    The problem seems to be that some of the production companies produce shows for Scripps as well as PRO paying networks and the libraries feel they have to take the good with the bad. This was relayed to me by Scorekeepers at one point. But, as someone mentioned here, Scoreepers keeps track of Scripp shows and pay the composers. I got a check at the end of last year for those placements. You won’t get rich on it but it’s at least something.

    #5720 Reply
    Greg
    Guest

    Good info all. For me, even in my scripps placements with JP are not generating back end, I want to know so I am not wasting time following up on tunesat detections fro those placements.

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