Tunesat Numerator Discrepancies

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  • #33475 Reply
    Alan
    Participant

    A track of mine was placed in a commercial. Tunesat has picked it up about 10 times on ESPN2. A Numerator search shows 4 different versions of the commercial (with separate add codes) that ran over 150 times. I’m pretty sure they all run during college football games Thursday through Saturday.
    Can any of you help me understand this huge discrepancy?
    I have the cheapest paid Tunesat account, USA only.

    #33476 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Can any of you help me understand this huge discrepancy?

    I find that Tunesat detections are about 50% of Numerator (Competitrack). Have you listened to all four versions on Numerator to determine if your music is in all four? If it is then the Tunesat count will not matter if your PRO pays off of the Numerator Ad Codes (BMI does). I file the BMI commercial form and list all the ad codes and it has not been a problem getting paid.

    #33478 Reply
    Music1234
    Participant

    Alan, there is no discrepancy. Numerator just presents the actual commercials airing. It is very normal for the same track to be used to advertise the same product in 3 or 4 different “edits” of a commercial. Example: client makes a 30 TV, then a 15 TV, and then another 15 TV, but they use the same track and may just change the edit and VO message slightly. You need to document all 3 ad titles and ad codes in your claim.

    What PRO are you with? I find that numerator only captures commercials airing in the USA. I could be wrong, but I have never found a spot airing in Europe on numerator. Tunesat can and does pick up TV spots in Europe. European countries probably have a different system for tracking TV spots and if anyone here knows how that is done please chime in. I am interested as I have had spots airing in France, Germany, Sweeden, Netherlands, Spain, Switzerland, Russia, etc….

    It’s always been a challenge compiling the information to make an international ad claim. The only thing I have been able to do is provide a link to the youtube video of the spot and that is not always enough “claim support”.

    In the USA, those numerator ad codes are very important for collecting performance royalties on TV spots.

    Does a Numerator style service exist in Europe?

    #33549 Reply
    Alan
    Participant

    Thanks for the replies.

    Have you listened to all four versions on Numerator to determine if your music is in all four?”
    Yes, my track is in all four versions. Each has it’s own ad code. I included all four ad codes in a single ASCAP claim.
    Assuming the Numerator numbers are correct, I find it surprising that Tunesat only detected 10 of those 150 airings.

    I had another commercial in Jan/Feb of 2019 that aired 197 times on CNN/Fox News/Headline News/MSNBC in the morning shows. I put in an ASCAP claim and got this reply
    “Eligible TV performances will be distributed commencing with the September/October 2019 distribution.”
    Of course, there was no payout. I’m reaching out now, but I suspect I’ll get the ASCAP survey standard reply.
    Anyone have any experience with these types of commercials?

    #33560 Reply
    Tbone
    Participant

    How did you guys get an account at Numerator? I signed up but they want to talk before going any further.

    #33561 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    How did you guys get an account at Numerator? I signed up but they want to talk before going any further.

    Back in the day it was very easy. I’m not sure the routine now but definitely harder.

    #33562 Reply
    Tbone
    Participant

    Back in the day it was very easy. I’m not sure the routine now but definitely harder.

    Ah ok, I’m not too surprised it’s gone that way. I have a feeling I could get a free trial, but I’m not sure they’d give me free access permanently. I’ll report back once I talk to them.

    #33563 Reply
    cyberk91
    Participant

    Alan I myself may going through this same thing in January…To be honest I think Tunesat is a lot better software it is more in depth on how many times they used my track (which was 54 times)…and when….. and there is an audio file so you can check out your track used in the ad and you can download it …to me that is way better proof then some ad code ……..I can’t even find it on Numerator….I can get close but the actual track is not on numerator just the network and show it was aired on..Tunesat just doesn’t have an ad code that I’m aware of and as far as I know BMI wants that Ad Code…

    #33564 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    To be honest I think Tunesat is a lot better software it is more in depth on how many times they used my track (which was 54 times)…and when….. and there is an audio file so you can check out your track used in the ad and you can download it …to me that is way better proof then some ad code …….

    That is not correct information! After many, many commercials I can tell you Tunesat only detects about 50% of what Numerator detects. That audio file is no proof at all as BMI will only pay off of Numerator counts, AFAIK. The beauty of the ad code is that is all you need. You don’t need all of the other requirements on the BMI commercial sheet.

    I can’t even find it on Numerator….I can get close but the actual track is not on numerator just the network and show it was aired on..

    Not my experience at all. You just need to get familiar with various search functions on Numerator. I use the tag search. I’ve never had a problem finding the commercial with the music, though you only get about a 10 second clip.

    #33565 Reply
    Music1234
    Participant

    I can’t even find it on Numerator…

    From my experience more local, regional TV spots by local USA and regional USA companies do not always get into Numerator’s data base. I see and hear one of my spots on PBS, CBS, NBC, ABC on a regular basis advertising a senior care home, but only in one local market. I have been told by my PRO I will be out of luck collecting performance royalties because the TV spot is not turning up in Numerator, even though this is a major market.

    Tunesat just doesn’t have an ad code that I’m aware of and as far as I know BMI wants that Ad Code

    You are correct. All 3 USA Pro’s corroborate data about TV spot air dates using Numerator’s database. So, not in numerator =’s no performance royalties paid by PRO’s most likely.

    It seems like European PRO’s pay based on “minutes of air time” a track accumulates.

    Sweeden’s PRO (STIM) pay rate card is interesting to observe:

    https://www.stim.se/sv/musik-i-radio-tv-film-och-reklam/hur-mycket-pengar-far-du-speltid-i-radio-tv-och-streaming

    #33566 Reply
    cyberk91
    Participant

    Art…understood…I’ll check it out…like I said it is only what I think …seems like none of these are perfect… Art and Music 123 thanks much for the info

    #33567 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    From my experience more local, regional TV spots by local USA and regional USA companies do not always get into Numerator’s data base.

    Yeah, I don’t think local markets will happen with Numerator and BMI. I’ve run across plenty of those on Tunesat that don’t show in Numerator.

    #33596 Reply
    Tbone
    Participant

    Numerator ended up quoting me something like $20,000 a year, so maybe it’s changed there or I’m asking for the wrong thing. Obviously I’ll have to pass on that.

    #33597 Reply
    Art Munson
    Keymaster

    Numerator ended up quoting me something like $20,000 a year,

    That seems odd. Must be another way in.

    #33598 Reply
    Tbone
    Participant

    That seems odd. Must be another way in.

    That’s what I thought too! I’ve explained more to them and will see what they say..

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