Using RF Commercial Sample Loops In Library Productions

[hubcat]

I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts in general about using RF loops in library productions. I know some companies don’t like them but the practice is so prevalent in popular music in general that I was curious if that was changing. I recently came across a package of solo trumpet loops at Loopmasters that could be very useful but I don’t want to waste my time if they are still widely frowned upon.

[Art Munson]

I recently came across a package of solo trumpet loops at Loopmasters.

I recently used some great harmonica licks, from Loopmasters, in a track.

Just make sure they are not in the clear and use judiciously.

[hubcat]

Hi Art, thanks for your input. One more question. When you say “make sure they are not in the clear” do you mean a passage where just the loop is playing by itself so it could be reused on it’s own?

[bigdrawwz]

I’d like clarity on “not in the clear also”? And what about changing the key and slowing the loop down? Thanks

[Art Munson]

When you say “make sure they are not in the clear” do you mean a passage where just the loop is playing by itself so it could be reused on it’s own?

Yes.

[Art Munson]

I’d like clarity on “not in the clear also”? And what about changing the key and slowing the loop down?

You could change the key and/or slow it down but it would still be against their EULA (End User License Agreement) to leave in the clear.

[hubcat]

Thanks Art

[MaxPower]

I use pre-cleared RF samples and loops all the time, but sparingly. Using them extensively or using ‘construction kits’ in the age of digital fingerprinting can and will lead to copyright infringement issues, as too many people are using the same kits which essentially makes their tracks identical.

[Michael Nickolas]

Yeah, loops are great to add an authentic sound to an original composition. Like an instrument difficult to own and learn like a pedal steel guitar, or traditional instruments from another country. The first thing I do after purchasing a loop product is print out the license agreement and store the hard copy in a file so I can find it quickly if I have any question about how they can be used!

[busterhemphill1]

Hi All – this thread seems to have been dormant but has been a good source of info. I’m gonna dive a little deeper with a question and maybe one of you will have a comment.
I’ve signed some pieces to an exclusive library, there is significant use of samples and loops, though always with at least two other musical elements. The EULA from the sample pack states that “you are allowed to use these for commercial recordings” without addition fees or attribution. In most cases, the samples have been extensively chopped, reconfg’d, diffent keys, tempos, etc. I am not using melodic elements without significant alteration. The loops are a slightly different story: the product contains a player that plays back your chord changes but with a rhythmic signature that is fairly unique to the product. Again, these are not in the clear but…

The exclusive library of course wants stems and is taking ownership of the master. The two questions are: am i at risk, either due to the potential for one of these stems to be used by itself, OR from the fact that in doing so, i have permitted someone else to use sounds for which I am the licensed user, not them? I think the case would really only apply to use of a stem where the sample was the only thing on the stem; if we are talking about the full mix, i think the EULA makes it pretty clear that there’s no problem there.
Anyone have thoughts?

[Michael Nickolas]

Yes, you have to avoid a situation where a sample stands alone. Most loop/sample libraries these days state in the license agreement that their sounds must be used in conjunction with other elements. Drums and percussion usually being the exception and can stand alone. I think you’ll have to explain to the library that certain elements cannot be used in isolation. Then, get creative with the stems. If the bass is built from loops, don’t provide a solo bass stem but do provided a bass and drum stem. If you have say a saxophone melody arranged from loops, combine it with something, maybe a keyboard and sax stem, bass and sax stem, whatever makes the most sense.

[busterhemphill1]

Thanks, Michael –

The license agreement actually doesn’t specifically prohibit this, though i understand a problem could still arise.

I’d be happy to provide fewer stems and bounce them in the way you describe; the balance i’m trying to strike is that i want the library to know that i’m willing and able to follow their very defined procedure – it’s my first time with them, so i don’t want to have anything i have to explain. I’m pretty sure they are aware that samples are being used (along with a lot of real instruments) but i don’t want to highlight this in my conversation with them. The music turned out great, it fills a need, i wanna continue what has so far been a very positive experience with enthusiasm all around. After all, i can honestly say that there are no uncleared samples. I thought about contacting the company that made the product, i didn’t want to put myself on the radar, though. I really go out of my way to get the administrative stuff right, taken all together with the composing and production, it’s a huge workload, which you know plenty about, i’m sure

[Michael Nickolas]

Absolutely understand not wanting to explain too much and keeping it simple with the library. I guess I was lucky in my last project like this. The library specifically stated to writers best to avoid loops, but if used do not isolate. So if they asked about my “creative” stems I could explain. They never did though.

am i at risk, either due to the potential for one of these stems to be used by itself, OR from the fact that in doing so, i have permitted someone else to use sounds for which I am the licensed user, not them?

Only the company providing the license can answer, right? So it should be asked regardless of being on their radar. If they say it’s fine, then you have an email record of permission. All is well and you’re covered. If they say no, you’ve saved yourself and the library from future headaches (and the library should be grateful). I’ve contacted companies many times for clarification, though usually before using the product in a project.

[busterhemphill1]

So, sample pack maker says “all good” – i got specific and described the most severe case/in the clear/standalone use and, apparently, no problem. Language in the email reply is not vague in any way, and i guess i can add it to my stack of work for hires for this project. Diligence is getting its due on this one.

[Michael Nickolas]

Very good and good luck with it!

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