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August 8, 2018 at 11:38 am in reply to: Composers and artists themselves destroy the business. #30636Music1234Participant
The secret is in the contract. Plenty of Publishing contracts, where ultimately each library and broker is simply a Publisher at the end of the day, will include the right to leverage the catalog and the copyright therein for interest for current and future earnings. There should also be a clause giving a term that states what obligations and duties the Publisher etc. has in regards to seeking opportunities and ultimately monetizing or furthering the composers or writers sound recordings.
Indeed the secret is in the contract. Publishers are in business to EXPLOIT works so they, first and foremost, can earn a profit first. I am not sure if you are advocating for subscription models or not, but I am sorry…I am never going to get on board with that and will be a loud and strong voice trying to convince all composers that if they “give in” to that model and start to participate, and eventually make it “the norm” they will put the nail in the coffin on a career writing music for film and tv and youtube content.
Wetwest, fair accounting can not be done in sub models. Once you pool 100,000 tracks together and say to a client “take whatever you need for a yearly subscription plan”, the only entity winning is the publisher/ owner of the library.
Composers interests lie with the concept of 1 license sold for each unique video project. Have a project and need a track? Great, rent my music. Have another project and need another track? Great, rent my music a second time.
That is the only fair solution.
Blanket models (which are similar to subscription models) work only when clients are contractually obligated to report cue sheet usage of titles.
I again advise all composers to never participate in subscription models where the music is being dealt “royalty free”. It is in your interest to be selling licenses at a unit cost per project, 1 license at a time.
Subscription models threaten to destroy music licensing the same way Napster single handedly destroyed the record business.
It took 18 years to make a come back. We’re now there. People are giving spotify and apple music, etc monthly fees once again.Just think about that….please…..
Music1234ParticipantA “title” amounts to nothing other than a “product” for license on one publisher’s site.
The re-title is “another product” on publisher 2’s site.
The third title is “another product” for license on (for example) an RF site
A 4th title is “another product” for license on (for example) a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th RF site.
a 5th title can even be a title you use on streaming sites like Spotify.Multiple titles for the same piece of music….It all amounts to 1 big pain in the butt, but without a doubt, I can factually say that re-titling and marketing our “products” multiple ways does increase revenue for an individual composer.
If any composer can jump in here and say they have never re-titled, only registered 1 original title at PRO’s through a PMA Library, and never marketed their music on different sites under different names (titles/ retitles, whatever you want to call them) and actually made a successful living, well, they are probably lying!
Imagine if coke or pepsi signed “exclusive” deals where only their soda brands can be sold at Costco or – not Mcd’s, kfc, burger kind, all restaurants everywhere, 7-11, white hen, and every other grocery store and convenience store on the planet.
Wake up call to all – mass distribution of any and all products (including production music) is how you make money in this business. The idea is to sell (rent) as many tracks (units) as you possibly can. The goal is to not wait for 1 “PMA” library to sync your music to a TV show or spot.
That’s absurd.
Music1234ParticipantGlenn, glad you are asking. As a 25 year veteran producing music for all media, I will never under any circumstances give away my rights to a music publisher exclusively in perpetuity.
It really would even be hard to engage in that deal even if the publisher was offering me $1500 a track. I would never send my music into a subscription model because the accounting is impossible and from what I personally have observed, the lions share of all revenue goes to the company, not the composer/ writer.A lot of young writers seemingly will jump at the chance to sign cues over to an exclusive library for a $50 “consideration fee” aka an “Advance”. The library/ publisher then owns your property in perpetuity, but you maintain your “writers share”. Then there are deals where you sign the cue exclusively for 1 to 3 years and the ownership reverts back to you. I suppose those are OK. I am just at a point in my life where I want to own and control all of the intellectual property I create. There are enough NE companies out there to distribute your music to.
The subscription model is the absolute worst model, the most unethical, and does not allow for fair accounting on any level. If no one participates ever, that business just dies away.
Ownership of your property allows for total control over all decisions: Do you want to try RF? Ok you can…Do you want to put the music on Spotify, Aplle Music, I-tunes, etc…? You can. Do you want to try companies that have relationships with TV networks and TV Production companies and advertising agencies…you can.
I, like many veterans, have my music in many places. Some work well, others don’t work very well at all. One thing is for certian…all this BS talk about how non -exclusive music can “cause problems and confusion” is just total nonsense. After many years of having several different companies represent my music (some who may have the exact same clients)..No one has ever written to me with complaints or concerns about which publisher to credit or where the music was sourced from…etc.
When Publishers say “TV networks demand exclusive music” I simply do not buy it. It’s just a scare tactic to allow themselves to legally and contractually obtain control of intellectual property for $0 to very cheap. I will never participate.
You ask: How do subscription models impact exclusive models? The answer is simple, if no one participates in Subscription models, there is no problem. If composers want to earn 4 cents from a license sold, go ahead and participate but start looking for another job because you will fail. Sub models are all about a greedy company stealing intellectual property so they can profit handsomely while you make enough to buy a piece of candy each month.
Music1234ParticipantI’d like to also add that I have never seen anyone sell PRS, GEMA, BUMA, or any foreign PRO royalty streams. This seems to be 100% centered around USA PROS – BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC.
I suppose things can get very merky and dicey if European writers tried to put their PRO royalties on the market for investors.
Basically once a deal closes – the future royalties immediately get assigned to the buying investor. It really is kind of like buying shares of a stock on an exchange. You buy the shares of Proctor and Gamble or Coca Cola, collect dividends “royalties”, but you also have the right to re-sell the stock, or in this case the “share of the future PRO royalty income stream”.
It’s a very cool concept. Some folks may need to raise money faster from their compositions and property. I prefer to just collect my “dividends” or “royalties” or “rent” long term.
Sesame street songs were put on the block because the charity that inherited the catalog just wanted hard cash now. They did not want to deal with a future royalty stream. The investor of that catalog will have the last laugh imho.
Music1234Participant@Composer of Notes – Typically you will get 5 times the last 12 months royalties. I have been following the royalty exchange story for 2 years now.
If your PRO statements over the last 3 years (For example) show that you consistently earned $10,000 a year. An investor would “invest in” or “purchase” your “future royalty revenue stream” for $50,000. This is how I see it and I am only using 10K for the sake of example and using a nice, easy round number.
Just look at your last 3 years of total PRO earnings, come up with an “average annual income” based on 3 years…multiply by 5 times your “average”…that should give you an idea of what an investor would pay.
Some “catalogs” or “songs” have fetched 6 to 10 times average annual royalties. Just start eye balling that market and you will eventually understand what they are doing.
For me, I just want my royalties to continue to roll in. I do not need to “raise money” so to speak.
One of the best investments I saw on royalty exchange was 500 K for the Sesame Street tunes. That was a good investment for sure. Those tunes will continue to consistently earn 100K a year in royalties I’d think. That investor made a good move buying that catalog. Just my opinion.
Music1234ParticipantSo to all you “closet” writers out there hanging out “as an experiment” in subscription models…How is it going? Are you getting paid? Is the accounting making sense? To those who privately say “Ah heck I am going to give this model a few months and see how it all shakes out.”
Well…..? What are the results? anyone making any money yet? Remember when I reported watching my royalties go from $15, $20, $30 etc…to .96 cents per “unit licensed” in that sub model by an unethical company that changed their business model without informing writers?
How about the music bed writers…How is their new subscription model treating you?
In other news….thankfully…the 1 license sold = 1 royalty paid to the author model seems to be working quite well. There is definitely no need to fix what is not broken, but there is a need to destroy these subscription models by not participating. Which choice will you make?
Music1234ParticipantNo Chuck. wrong. We are not missing anything as business people, nor entrepreneurs. There are successful writers, right here in this forum (in this thread).
Some composers writers do “miss the mark” on certain issues. They write the wrong styles and genre’s for TV and ads, they get involved with models they should not be involved with, they fall prey to predators and unfavorable deals (subscription models – exclusive in perpetuity for no WFA fee).
They use the wrong sound libraries that sound like 80’s toy casio synths.
Writing for film, advertising, TV is a craft. A learned craft that takes years and years of development and practice and intuition. By intuition I mean composers making guided decisions themselves as to what genre’s to write in, how to produce it, paying attention to what’s “in demand” now. Paying attention to music you hear on tv, films, and ads. Emulating “todays sound” and not the sound of 20 years ago. Even Emulating the sounds of 60’s 70’s but doing so in a unique and convincing manner.
It’s about being honest with yourself and comparing your mixes and compositions to the elite libraries like UMG and Sony or top selling tracks in micro stock markets. You have to ask “Is my track competitive with the best out there?”
And I hate to say it, but if you want to produce production music full time. It needs to be “full time”. I honestly do not think you can master the craft of music for TV, film and advertising unless you do it full time – 100 tracks a year for 10 years straight. You need to get practice scoring films, scoring 30 second ads, writing for 60 radio, writing a theme for a show, write underscores for shows, writing 2 minute corporate tutorial underscores…and so on…you have to practice all of it, over and over and over for years and years and years.
Also for the record, at this point in the game (10 to 15 years into digital music licensing and on line data bases)…I absolutely consider JP “High End”…They sure do have a lot of TV clients.
If you are great, go to a convention or event like ASCAP expo, PMA Meeting, SWSX, MIDEM, NAMM show, NAB show…get some face time with some people and give it a shot….If you are “great” you will probably start getting e-mails from libraries and music supervisors or film editors or directors asking you to write cues for specific projects.
Music1234ParticipantMichael, I have to disagree and offer another perspective. There are film makers and video folks out there who are paying and in fact willing to pay more for better quality.
There is a company trying to become the “trivago” of stock music licensing. The way it will work is this: Customer performs a keyword search and then is lead to tracks from many sites not just one. They will have the ability to audition and price compare.
Video folks are sick and tired of AJ force feeding the top sellers based on their algorithm of “hot sellers get presented”. Feedback I have heard is that professional video folks do not care if they occasionally have to pay $40, $50, $60, $100 (higher micro stock prices) to get what they want and need.
I really look forward to author driven pricing coming onto AJ…that should make things a lot more interesting.
@Chuck…People do not talk about the PMA for a few reasons: Increasingly the doors are shut unless a personal recommendation is given and someone is escorted in by a friend. PMA libraries do not automatically put money on the table! They want exclusivity so they can sub pub in various territories around the world and they want the music perpetually which presents big risks.
From my perspective in USA TV markets Extreme, Killer Tracks, Firstcomm, Chappel (UMG), and Jingle Punks do the best job for TV syncs. Good luck to any new writer getting in and also good luck to existing writers because now as JP has matured, the emphasis is on in house tracks. In house, exclusive tracks will always get the most presentations to their clients. Study cue sheets and that tells the story.
This is also an interesting development too:
Music1234Participant123rf was a bust…I jumped ship there too.
Music1234ParticipantRight but what about when the majority of folks say “I made 1 sale last year” or I have sold nothing in the last 3 years…
I agree that Mark should stay patient if he can confirm that others are actually getting paid from this site. I am talking about sites where 19 out of 20 writers say I have made $15 over the last 2 or 3 years.
This also leads to another discussion: Algorithms….you get a sense that algorithms control many markets. Sites that favor tracks that sell a lot show up in search more, etc. Great for those getting presented, problematic for those trying to get some listens.
I still feel as though the writing is on the wall after 2 to 3 years. If you are not getting paid, you should pull out. Definitely with overseas markets.
Motion Elements was a bust from my perspective. Production Trax is a bust. Tunefruit while highly rated here is also a bust. Can anyone claim that they are pulling in consistent revenue from the above mentioned?
Music1234ParticipantI’d hope you consider removing your content if after 1 or 2 years you drum up 1 sale.
I don’t know how others feel about this but, I come from the school of thought that we are taking more of a risk by having our music sit around in stock music sites that can not produce income for us. Why? because the longer the site operators sit on the assets the more likely they will think of dumping and devaluing strategies to just grab any money they can (sub models). If we supply only markets that actually pay us, we protect our prices and income. I’d be curious to see what others think?Music1234ParticipantWhile it probably is “dismal” for a new writer with average talent, if you believe you are a talented writer and have great tracks, just release away and see what happens. I’ve seen young writers jump into the scene and 5 to 6 months later watched them chart, and pull down 5 to 15K a month just from AJ. Obviously this does not happen without the favoritism boost they received with featured tracks, contest wins, etc. They were heavily promoted on that site.
I still say that if you have great talent and are willing to write 100 tracks a year for 10 straight years, you can eventually make a living at this because somewhere along the line, you will get someone’s attention.
Yes “great talent” and “great music” is subjective, but we probably can all agree that when you hear a great track, you just hear it and say. Wow this was very cool.
I am electing not to mention NE libraries I have worked with because they no longer are NE for new writers. In some cases, I am not even sure if more and new writers is on their agenda. Increasingly from my perspective the doors are once again closed and personal introductions and recommendations are probably the only way you will be escorted into a library that really has solid TV clients.
Also remember to not include micro stock licensing sites with NE libraries. They are not the same thing.
Music1234Participant@LA Writer, while it would be a shame to see an exclusive publisher adopt the sub model, at least you can walk away knowing you were paid that work for hire. When you sell a tune, you sell a tune.
This is why I put at least a 3K price tag on tunes where the copyright is transferred. Publishers would never pay 3K a tune to own the copyright in perpetuity. Fine by me, I’d rather own the cue and perpetually collect license fees and earn more than 3K per tune over their life time.
It’s really sad when I hear some writers say “This subscription model just launched, I am going to give this a few months to see what happens.”
What exactly do you think is going to happen? I already know…YOU are devaluing yourself to peanuts, and the owner of the company is giving him or herself a nice juicy raise. Are you cool with that?
Music1234ParticipantIn my opinion I would think that a shift to a different “pooled royalty” subscription business model would nullify your contract. You would have to opt into new terms of service. Most exclusive deals say:
“Publisher hereby agrees to pay to Licensor, Fifty percent (50%) of the amount of any one-time license use fee (a “Single-Use License Fee”) received by Publisher with respect to any single-use license granted by Publisher for the use of a Master in connection with a motion picture, commercial advertisement broadcast on television , internet, or any other media (ring tones, apps, games, etc) .”
Deals we signed never addressed subscription models. The key word seems to be “Single Use” One ‘Single Use” License Sold = 1 Royalty “Sync Fee” paid to Artist.
I listened to the podcast above. The first 25 minutes is just a story about his “struggle” as a fledgling musician. Then they shift to the business where we learned that they have 8 staff writers and 85 contributors. They emphasize ‘Quality” with their 3000 tracks. They want the broke YOUTUBE film maker as their clients. No where do they get any tough questions like “what is your annual revenue?” “How do you pay Artists?” “Why aren’t you affiliated with PRO’s”? Why are you undercutting the entire industry and yourselves? What would you charge for a world wide advertising campaign?
So who really knows. What I do know is that 3000 tracks divided by 85 = about 35 tracks per artist . When you have 85 artists hoping for some revenue and only 3000 tracks…it does not look that ideal for any artist. This company would have to be printing $3,000,000 a year in revenue so 85 people can make around 30K a year (on average) They’d also have to have around 20,000 to 25,000 subscribers to hit these numbers. I kind of doubt they have that many subscribers, but what do I know?
There also were no questions about PRO in the podcast. So lots of “fluff” and “buzz” in the interview but no real clues or facts stated about the bottom line: How much revenue are you doing? How many subscribers do you have? What are your Artists getting paid? How do you decide what to pay them when the revenue is pooled together?
It’s real simple: If you do not participate, you do not devalue yourself and the entire industry.
I saw with my own eyes what it did to my royalties. They plummeted to 96 cents, but I’m out. Out of principle, I will not sell my soul so some greedy folks can profit from my music.
Yes – NO MONEY is better than 96 cents in this situation.Music1234ParticipantSo what do you know, A company that was licensing my music on a 1 track sold = 1 royalty paid basis that now transformed to Subscription wrote me an e-mail.
“I hope you’re doing well! Attached is your final report for Q3. This is just the remaining standard licenses for Q3. The corresponding payment was sent to your PayPal. Enjoy your summer and let me know if you need anything!”
My statements used to show a lot of $15, $25, $40 kinds of royalties. This recent statement was .96 cents!!!!!!! Every tune licensed paid me a royalty of 96 cents.
Can you all now see how destructive these models are????
WHY WHY WHY Are you participating? Do you like devaluing yourself by 99%
This is from the company that engineered some sort of formula where magically 80% of all subscription revenue remained for the company…20% goes to the “royalty pool”. So I guess in July Aug and September of 2017 (When I had no idea my music was being licensed within this new model) I earned $12.
Under normal licensing circumstances, this would have net me probably $200
13 Licenses paid $12 total revenue. Sickening!
Please everyone, remove your music from companies NOT PAYING YOU, or transitioning to subscription. I guarantee you these crooks will cook up subscription models, devalue the entire industry over night and you will watch your revenue tank. Yes it is the site operators who are launching this destructive devaluation, but complicit and lazy composers (who do not want to order take downs) are to blame too.
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