- This topic has 29 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by The Dude.
February 1, 2014 at 12:37 pm #14608music_proParticipant
MichaelL, exactly what I said about the writer share, you are just a lot nicer than me 🙂February 1, 2014 at 12:41 pm #14609royalty collector guyGuest
I agree with most everything you say music_pro, but just counter offering for maintaining 100% writers share is not going to kill the deal. They can simply say no our offer is firm and final. I do not think they will say “we are withdrawing our offer because you asked for 100% credit for the music you wrote.”
Regarding growing bigger. In this business you grow big, then shrink down, then grow big again, then shrink down. It’s a roller coaster ride for most and a lot of luck and timing is involved. One year a composer may earn 150K, the next 75K…then out of the blue something big hits, then you go 5 months with not much action…I know many experienced composers, most will tell a similar story. Cheers.February 1, 2014 at 12:42 pm #14610MichaelLParticipant
Nah, that’s just one of my other personas…
“Mr. Nice Old Composer”
I’m really going to have to work on changing my syntax and writing style, so no one will guess who I am.February 1, 2014 at 12:49 pm #14611MichaelLParticipant
It’s a roller coaster ride for most and a lot of luck and timing is involved. One year a composer may earn 150K, the next 75K…then out of the blue something big hits, then you go 5 months with not much action…I know many experienced composers, most will tell a similar story.
I think Jason Aldean said it best: “one year they repossess your truck and the next you make a couple million bucks.”February 1, 2014 at 1:33 pm #14612KiwiGuest
Clarification on my original post:
When I asked the company that I mentioned for %100 of the writer’s share they didn’t blink an eye. It seemed like they were waiting for me to bring it up. I think that some entities will ask for %100 just to see if they can get it and to find out who they’re dealing with.
Also, I want to be clear that I don’t condone the practice of publishers asking for any percentage of the writer’s share any more than BMI or ASCAP condone it (they don’t from my understanding). In my opinion it’s wrong. But… it happens and there are several well known entities that do it.
If you want to share with me the name of the company that’s making such offers I’ll be glad to investigate their credibility for you… 😉February 1, 2014 at 2:39 pm #14614TboneParticipant
Music pro I completely and utterly disagree with what you have said. You are seeing it purely from the desperate standpoint of wanting the $28k deal.
1. You need to look at it from a business perspective: they waltz up and open their wallets with $28k asking (apparently) for 50% of writer’s share. Therefore you know they have deep pockets and it’s worth more to them than $28k. A lot more. THEY are being greedy if anyone here is. At this point in the deal, Peter not making a counter offer is like a puppy rolling over in awe.
2. You don’t know what Peter’s music is like. You say everyone makes music these days. Yea? Well not everyone makes the music you hear on a globally distributed trailer for the latest blockbuster. Before you assume he’s just another sample looper how about you consider that maybe his product is exceptional and worth A LOT more than $28k.
3. Your attitude is exactly what contributes to the slide downwards of what composers can negotiate for. Don’t do it! Become better at business for your sake, and for all composers’ sakes!
Lastly, you know what? His music must be worth a lot more than $28k for them to offer that much.
Just imagine this scenario: here’s a company where each one of their office chairs is worth more than your kitchen. They have a deal lined up to license Peter’s tracks for approx $300k over 10 years. They come along to Peter and say yea we’ll give you $28k and 50% of the 200% broadcast royalties. Peter goes oh it would be just so awfully greedy of me to ask for HALF the broadcast royalties!!
COME ON GUYS!February 1, 2014 at 4:07 pm #1461556 StratParticipant
Exactly Tbone ! I agree with you 100% ! I was going to chime in after I read music pro’s comment but you said much of what I was going to say. Music pro, with respect [ I’m not bashing ], ” Adapt ” ??? adapt to what ? it’s some of this ” adapting ” to bad deals without a fight and desperation that contributed to the down spiral for artists. It’s more than just the saturation of the market. Peter , ask for 100% writers share, it’s your right. It won’t kill the deal like others are saying here. You very well could get it and and at very worse there might be a little more negotiation. it will be a great learning experience for you. By the way, congrats 🙂February 1, 2014 at 4:53 pm #14617The DudeGuest
Peter, I’ll give you $38k and 93.1% writer’s share if you post your real name.
– Anonymous jerky guy
Only kidding. Whatever you decide, congrats on the offer, and hopefully the deal will go well!February 2, 2014 at 3:41 am #14622music_proParticipant
I didnt talked about Peter music but about music in gerneral those days. If you guys think 28K and 50% writer share is not enough then fine, I think and no metter how good the music is or what deals they have lined up for Peter music, for an anknown writer like Peter, 28K is an amazing deal and I don’t think he should be counter offering just to be “right” and get the full writer share. Of course they will make way more money than the 28K, this is their business. If they will not make it with Peter music, they will make it with another composer music and believe me, I know a few trailer guys that will gladly take this deal. Can Peter make by himself more then 28K for those tracks? Maybe, and maybe not. So why risk it?February 2, 2014 at 10:29 pm #14623Art MunsonKeymaster
I’d try to get them to drop the writers share. But if they don’t I’d take the deal anyway. If you’re gonna write production music, you’ll be writing music all the time and those 18 tracks will soon be ancient history. If you’re new to libraries, this sounds like a great opportunity to dive in headfirst.
EbFebruary 3, 2014 at 4:06 pm #14613Desire_InspiresParticipant
Also, the “writer share” is not holy. OK you wrote the music, big deal, you know how many people write music now? Too much. It is all supply and demand. You need to adapt, and by being too attached to the writer share or any other aspect of this biz, you are definitely not adapting, and I thank you for that, more money for me.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.February 3, 2014 at 6:00 pm #14632The DudeGuest
DI, I’m curious, and I’m being serious about this. I’m not trying to be combative. You seem to be of the opinion that there’s a lot of competition out there, so a composer’s best bet is to take whatever the offer presented. Do you think there is a bottom limit that can’t be crossed? Is there a point where the composer would be correct to try and get more money for his effort? Do you think that the compensation will get lower and lower if the composer takes the first offer every time? What happens then?February 4, 2014 at 3:30 am #14634AdviceParticipant
Nothing wrong with negotiating, asking for the Writer’s Share. They could say no… or it could end up a 75/25 split in your favor as opposed to 50/50. You’ll never know if you don’t ask and as long as you are professional, extremely unlikely that it would blow the deal.
I generally am against giving up Writer’s Share. That being said, there’s a world of difference between being given $28K upfront in that situation and some library giving you $0 and asking you to give up 50% of Writer’s Share so they can give publishing to the TV production company.
The OP said he was contacted (unsolicited?) about this on Twitter. I’m always a little skeptical when contacted unsolicited off the internet, so just make sure the company is legit. I have no reason to think otherwise.
As far as DI’s comments, do what I’ve done… Install the “DI Filter” browser plug in.February 4, 2014 at 10:46 am #14633Desire_InspiresParticipant
I have a serious question for you, The Dude.
Have you ever made $28,000 or more at one time from music?
If so, you have a position and knowledge that gives you the confidence to negotiate.
If not, you are just complaining to complain.
In any case, I wish the original poster the best. It is his deal, not mine.February 4, 2014 at 12:04 pm #14636The DudeGuest
DI, my intent was not to get into a p***ing match, and the questions weren’t specifically about Peter’s deal (so perhaps they don’t belong in this thread). But since you asked, I have had two tracks in national ads in the last year. They did not pay quite $28,000, but they paid 5 figures. I also have written about 5 albums for exclusive libraries that paid about half that (buy-out), but I kept 100% writer’s share, so it has worked out pretty well. Serious question answered.
My questions to you were, how low would you go? Is there EVER a time when a composer should ask for more? I don’t quite understand how negotiating a deal is “complaining”, and I have a feeling it’s just something you like to say.
This has gotten way off track, congrats on whatever you decide OP. Negotiate or not, it sounds like a sweet deal.