Where might I be going wrong?

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This topic contains 28 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Rorywill 9 months ago.

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  • #26345 Reply

    Rorywill
    Participant

    Hi there – first post here.

    I’ve been busy submitting my music to various music licensers and as many here will know, rejection is tough, especially without clear feedback on how to improve your chances in the future. So, I was hoping there might be some here who are more familiar with the standards I’m trying to get to. Here’s a link to my EP, an electronic EO inspired by frank herbert’s Dune. There’s also a link for a quieter, guitar based track that offers something different (I was hoping this track would be ideal for licensers!)

    Anyone got any constructive feedback and good guesses as to where I might be going wrong? Production quality? (I sometimes feel my music doesn’t give enough space, sonically). Compositionally? Overall?

    Here’s the links and I really appreciate anyone taking the time to listen to this for me.

    Cheers,

    Rory AKA planetarium.

    The last link is the guitar based track I had mentioned, the rest is from my EP “Dune”

    Rory Will

    #26347 Reply

    Rorywill
    Participant

    I should add, I do have some work for a video game coming up, where I’m collaborating with a very well established composer, who used to score some major video games with rockstar games. Trouble is, I don’t see a way that this opportunity is actually going to open up any avenues. Yes, I’ll have something “for the CV” but no more. I also wonder if the track lengths aren’t doing me any justice. I.e. Weak intros are causing listeners to instantly move on. They obviously have A LOT of submissions and aren’t going to wait for an unknown artist’s “hook” to kick in.

    I have received offers from sentric (who I believe are a waste of time), amurco (who I get the impression let anyone abd everyone into their roster), and audiosparks (see amurco, only with worse contract terms). Could really use some constructive criticism here from people of experience, and maybe, if it’s justified, a little encouragement so that I might feel like less of a fantasist.

    Also considering putting four or five short and sweet tracks together, sending them to a professional sound engineer for mixing, just in case I’m right about my own efforts – too little sonic space.

    Thanks again.

    Rory

    #26353 Reply

    Musicmatters
    Participant

    Hi Rorywill,

    Congratulations, your music is very good. I agree with you that you could get to the point quicker but even then you could still see some sales. My advice is to write lots of music and keep working, grab whatever gigs you can at this point, the experience is worth it. Try many different styles and genres and see what works for you. Everyone has a different skill set… We are lucky to do what we do, don’t give up 🙂

    #26355 Reply

    Paolo

    @rorywill

    I listened to some of your stuff and heard a lot of good elements to your writing and production. So to answer your question “where might I be going wrong” I think it’s most helpful for you to know and confirm who is your intended customer, and ultimately, who is the end listener? And then, does your music fulfill the needs of both the purchaser and audience?

    Also, if you haven’t already, give a listen to the music of composers who are placing their music where you want to place your music. Explore: instrumentation, song structure, length of track, composition style, keys/time sig, motif development, etc, etc!

    I’m collaborating with a very well established composer…

    this is excellent feedback that you’re doing more things right than not and somethin you can feel good about.g

    #26357 Reply

    Mark Lewis
    Participant

    Dance of the Freeman
    Starting with a wind sound will turn off 90% of the customers. They don’t need sound effects in their music. It really limits what your music can be used for.
    The intro before you get to the dramatic meat of the composition is not needed.
    You could start this track at 2:18 and let it end at 3:00 and it would be a perfect cue.
    8:30 is far far too long for a cue, especially with so many changes in feel. Cut it up!

    Arrival on Arrakis
    Start at 1:55 and end at 3:30. It would make a good drama/tension cue.
    Lose the wind sound effects. Sound effects will lose 90% of your potential customers.

    Celestial Vagabond
    Far too long (11minutes!!) to be considered a production music cue and the style of music not really suitable either.

    Boxed Up
    Great track, nice guitar work. Intro too long.
    Start this at 1:46 and end around 3:00 before high synth melody comes in.

    Overall
    This is what I do when I approve music. I close my eyes and imagine the kind of video or scene that this music might fit into. What would your 11 minute cue be used for? can you describe the potential customer that would use your 11 minute cue? I would guess that you would struggle to name a situation where 11 minutes of old school progressive synth work would fit into a project (other than a Dune film).
    Start thinking in bite size chunks as you have great ideas and are obviously a good musician and composer. Edit yourself.
    I think working on your video game project will get you to think in smaller chunks.

    Good luck.
    – Mark

    #26359 Reply

    Rorywill
    Participant

    Thank you for your comments guys and that’s some really vital feedback mark, so thank you. I guess a part of me was hoping (not expecting) for licensers to listen to the whole thing, or at least skip through various sections, and request cuts of the song they like. I’ll maybe proceed By getting the tracks cut up like you suggest. I know celestial vagabond is the least marketable one in there, but the final synth sequence, with the tense piano, I was kind of hoping to use – I’ll maybe give it an edit. I take it Music submission listeners are tuning by out after the first second of music they don’t like? I.e theyre not thinking “let’s give this a chance” Any particular places you think might suit my style?

    Regards

    Rory

    #26360 Reply

    Jure
    Participant

    Starting with a wind sound will turn off 90% of the customers.They don’t need sound effects in their music. It really limits what your music can be used for.

    hello Mark i would appreciate a little more on this. Do you really think that intro in therms of wind/pad is useless? why?
    You can easily skip or cut it?
    I think it is still good alternative for intro of a song?

    Does this also apply to risers and transitional effects in cues?
    I do more of electronic stuff and use a lot of it, so you think it is unapropriate?
    Because of editing?

    Otherwise i 100% agree with your input and nice composition Rory keep it up!

    #26361 Reply

    Mark Lewis
    Participant

    You can easily skip or cut it?

    Not when it is mixed into the music you can’t.

    Let the client add their own appropriate sound effects.
    Why limit the possible uses of your cue?

    Does this also apply to risers and transitional effects in cues?

    No. Just actual sound effects mixed into the music, like birds, wind, surf, etc.

    #26362 Reply

    Mark Lewis
    Participant

    I take it Music submission listeners are tuning by out after the first second of music they don’t like?

    Unless you are Brian Eno or Duane Allman you will be hard pressed to get someone to listen to more than 15 seconds of your track before making an initial assessment let alone 11 minutes.

    #26363 Reply

    Jure
    Participant

    aha ok, but that is the other thing i was thinking about, risers and transitional effects also can’t be cut properlly when mixed in music, so what do you think is better to do separate version without or extend it with parts without fx?
    hmmm, they sound great to me, but are sometimes hard to make edits of a cue, because they are usually at changing parts?

    so intros are more or less useless? also build up, should you start with main theme and then make a break and rebuild, so client can hear main thing straight away?

    thanks for your input!

    #26364 Reply

    Jure
    Participant

    will be hard pressed to get someone to listen to more than 15 seconds of your track before making an initial assessment

    this is probally true and also when you think that client will know by visual representation of a waveform where the main part is, is more of a engeneer thing and client doesn’t know this.

    #26365 Reply

    Mark Lewis
    Participant

    so intros are more or less useless?

    I didn’t say that. If an intro has direction and purpose they are of course useful.

    also build up, should you start with main theme and then make a break and rebuild, so client can hear main thing straight away?

    This is a good question. It depends on the cue.
    If it is a cinematic action/dramatic cue with hybrid orchestra, etc, then it would be appropriate to build up to a main theme. I think clients looking for this sort of thing are more patient and willing to see where the music develops.
    If you are doing EDM then building and breaking down is what that music is all about.
    If you are doing a 30 sec or 60 sec cue you kind of want to get to the point pretty quickly. Same with corporate music.

    #26366 Reply

    Jure
    Participant

    sure, sometimes it’s hard to fit practical and musical purpose.

    thanks again!

    #26368 Reply

    Rorywill
    Participant

    Thanks again mark. Taken a new approach to listening to my work and I won’t necessarily get it right straight away but feel like there’s so much dirrection I can give to my existing music, just by cutting in the right places. That’s given me hope outside of my current gig on the video game and that’s what I need.

    Can I ask this however, I’m no use at mastering my tracks and I’m actually a believer that the producer shouldn’t be mastering anyway. Does non-mastered music instantly stand out as a flop to people choosing music such as yourself? I guess it’s unlikely that the customer will notice, but are people like yourself at all likely to say “we’ll take it but you need to have it mastered…” or instantly write it off? I guess it’s the latter and I just need to bite the bullet and pay someone to do it.

    #26370 Reply

    Mark Lewis
    Participant

    Does non-mastered music instantly stand out as a flop to people choosing music such as yourself?

    For me personally your current mixes that you have posted here would work just fine, no problem at all. Most clients don’t have a very nuanced ear and simply know what they like when they hear it.

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