Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
JUST DON’T DO IT. Make the minimum price at least $99. All of us today can just raise our prices and say to the market “take it or leave it”…Just do it today all of you.
Why can’t the minimum fee for a track be $99 on the RF market?
Just raise your prices now…and stop feeding those exclusive music boxes up for free…let’s just get this done!
Glen, I’m going to give you the short legal answer. We are not being hired, like VO announcers, to perform services, we are, especially when you speak of RF libraries, selling “goods.” Any agreement by library owners and/or composers to set or “fix” minimum prices would most likely be a restriction of free trade, in violation of, at the very least US anti-trust laws. I could give you the citations, but my books are packed. However,”price-fixing” of goods is a NO NO.
As far as the “styles we need now,” if someone want’s to ride that treadmill, let them. I’d rather build and own my catalog.
_Michael
There is more than one way of looking at library music. Some view it a commodity, like products sold in a store. For other’s it’s their “art” and they approach it with the seriousness,and treat each composition as if it were a precious gem. The latter seems ironic considering the state of media. I mean, do you really wants your precious gems underneath Honey Boo Boo or the Kardashian’s?
Nonetheless, what is the underlying issue that composers have with “exclusivity” or with RF libraries? Risk. We are afraid that we won’t 1) make money, or 2) make enough money for what we think is the proper value of our music. But, if you produce a piece of music and it NEVER sells, what have you lost? For most of us, just a few days’ time. So, instead we waste time engaging in circular debates about the “race to the bottom.”
Here’s a news flash: if we didn’t take risks, we’d still be living in caves. This article in the WSJ is food for thought.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324031404578481162903760052.html
One of the many valuable lessons that I learned in law school and in practice, was that clear-headed, unemotional analysis succeeds most often. Unfortunately, many musicians are grounded in emotion, it’s what attracts them to music, it makes them passionate, it makes them not so good when it comes to business…sometimes.
TV execs and library owners are not sitting in board rooms trying to figure out ways to make “slaves” out of composers. Really.
_Michael
This craft (this labor) must have a price…and $15 on an RF site is not a real price! It’s about composers not becoming free slaves to publishers and their clients.
Glen, I think that you’re really being more than a bit melodramatic here. Where to begin?
First, has anyone bound you in chains, beaten you and forced you to compose music for free? I didn’t think so. Maybe slave is too strong a word then.
Now, let’s talk about labor. One cold snowy/rainy morning, a few months ago I drove past a group of men who were replacing the waste line to a house, up to their necks in mud, in wet,freezing weather. Now, THAT is labor. I thought, how fortunate I am (and we are) to be able to compose music for a living.
This is a business of averages. Like any investment portfolio, you balance the winners against the losers. Some cues sell / place a lot, others do not. But, what about your example of the $15 RF cue? Do you expect to sell that cue only once? What if you sell it 100 times? Supply and demand economics. Here’s a synopsis: when goods are plentiful the price goes down. When goods are scarce the price goes up. AND…there has to be a demand, or need, for what you’re selling. It has never been more inexpensive to produce good “sounding” music. As a result, music has never been more plentiful, and that is the source of the “price” problem.
Your scenario of composers banding together and demanding more money from libraries and TV bigwigs isn’t likely to happen, for a number of reasons, mainly competition. Some composers are actually, dare I say it, business persons. They understand what it takes to be competitive, whether that means working harder, investing more, or letting the market set its price.
What you’re really saying is that you want to return to the halcyon days, when only “qualified” composers could enter the field and,as such, could charge what they wanted. I’m afraid that horse has left the barn. The only solution to your quandry would be for Art to post this message: To all future library composers,wannabes, hobbyists and amateurs(especially those using loops) the library buisness is now closed. There are too many of you, making too much music (most of which lacks artistic merit). Please stop and go away, because you are causing the value of my labor (I use the term loosly) to go down.Unfortunately…that is not likely to happen. So, get used to competing on the “level playing field.”
_Michael
Do you really feel as though you have created something interesting, something melodic, with counterpoint and harmony…and does it have any compositional/ artistic value? Sorry to sound like a snob…I admit, I am by no means anything like Mozart or Vivaldi, but I certainly try to funnel in some artistic and compositional value to every piece of music I create.
OK…now I see where you’re coming from Glen. I’ve been writing library music for 30+ years. With the exception of cues for which I retain ownership and/or publishing I have always been paid upfront. But…I’ve got to agree with Mark, you sound like you’re drowning in this new fangled world. It is what it is, and to be Darwinian about it, you either adapt or die. On a certain level, consumers are less interested in the types of music you mention, particularly counterpoint.
As far as business models go, I applaud the the independent spirit of libraries, like MusicLoops. After studying the “new” library world for a few years now, I’m shifting my entire focus in that direction.
Backend money from libraries like JP is like the siren on the rocks. Who knows what the future of broadcast TV is? If things move to streaming, backend royalties will likely diminish greatly. (think of what internet royalties pay now).
It’s a brave new world. I’m an old pro, not an amateur or hobbyist and I’m lovin’ the possibilities.
@Mark … 😀
@Desire Inspires….nothing wrong with being a “beat maker” except that it’s a very crowded field. That may be because it takes less investment in time (schooling) and money (equipment) to create product, and it’s part of pop culture.
@Gary, try not to let guys like “mr composer” get to you. He’s stroking his own ego. There’s plenty of high end library music made with samples (just ask Mark Petrie). AND, there’s nothing wrong with RF libraries. I like that business model more and more, because of the composer’s ability to retain ownership and control of their career.
Any company wanting my music (that currently sits in their library and search engine non-exclusively) to move into the exclusive column has to make me an offer. Sure, I’ll go exclusive with you, if you cut me a check for $1000 for every track you want to be exclusively yours.
@Glen, I was going to stay silent in this thread, however…I don’t know you, or your music, but I can tell you that it better be brilliant if you want anyone to pony up $1,000 for it. Those fees are from top tier exclusive libraries, like Megatrax, who do take your copyright…FOREVER. BUT…there are a ton of lesser libraries that pay anywhere from $150 to $500 upfront and still take your copyright..FOREVER.So, unless your in that rarified atmosphere of top tier composers and your work is head and shoulders above everyone else…don’t hold your breath.
Unfortunately, many of the writers here don’t know the type of composers that I, or perhaps “mr composer” are referring to.
Here’s an example of a great production music composer, who has done over 200 cues for Megatrax. The real deal, not a singer/songwriter, not a beat-maker, not a wannabe pop star, but a library music superstar.
http://donnwilkerson.com/The_Music_Of_Donn_Wilkerson/Welcome.html
Here’s another:
Their music might sound old school to you, but guys like Mr. Wilkerson and Mr. Griffith are few and far between, which is why they command top dollar. Pop, rock, electronica, beat-making are…uh, ubiquitous.
So, the big strategy question I’d ask anyone, is “where do you fit on the musical food chain?” You’d better know the honest answer to that question before you go all prima donna and demand $1,000 a cue for your music.
Special note to conservatory cats: Don’t take your pedigree to seriously. Even if your music is academically brilliant it doesn’t matter. What matters is that it works. Too often the highly “schooled” don’t connect with the audience. Mr. Griffith is an example of someone who bridges that gap well.
Food for thought. Now back to selling my house and searching for the dream studio.
Cheers,
MichaelLChanged my mind. Life goes on.
But wait…they do say the licensing is the “fast and easy way to make money with your music.” So, they must know what they’re talking about. 😆
Certainly, NOT the thing to do. It is not looked upon favourably by any party. At the very least, it is a time consuming irritation. At worst, it comes across as stalkery desperation. What are they gonna think? “Oh…I wonder if this dude is gonna contact me EVERY time we use his stuff. ” Hmmmm…maybe better using someone else’s.
I’m going to revise my opinion. Del is correct, especially when it comes to TV editors/producers. We’re just a dime a dozen to these guys and they don’t want to be bothered.
I come from a scoring background, where common ways to get work include picking up the phone, sending a reel and networking. It’s a different world.
Chances are that your cue is one of dozens, maybe a hundred in any given show. Imagine if all of the composers called the producer and editor. Not good.
_MichaelL
I know you can’t to compound questions, but it would be interesting to see how income and number of tracks correlate. For example, does everyone making 100K have 500+ tracks?
The library might not like it. Some of them are uncomfortable with client contact. I think they’re afraid that you’ll direct license. And they don’t want every composer pestering the client.
But, if the project using your music is significant, you should try to add it to your credits, or get a copy for your reel.
Be professional and polite. If you’re not, it will get back to the library.
Cheers,
MichaelL
@Glen…if you wouldn’t mind,please send me PM (to MichaelL) with the name of the library. I’d like to know who it is before I waste my time (or much more of my time).
Thanks,
MichaelL
@TheOne…I would ask your PRO. It may be that you are considered the “arranger” of the re-workd PD composition (which may affect the rate at which you get paid). Like original compositions, you can, and should, copyright your arrangements of PD works.
Although Beethoven and others are now “de-composing” 😆 you still need to be careful. Many Christmas carols, although written more than 100 years ago, have been subsequently arranged by others and published in church hymnals. I’ve heard numerous Christmas carols in libraries that were lifted straight out of hymnals, without any modification. Taking “Hark the Herald,” for example, from a church hymnal, then merely recording it on a toy piano, instead of with a choir, does not constitute a new arrangement, if you don’t re-harmonize, or modify the work in some way. Depending upon when the arrangement in the hymnal was completed / copywrittten and/or published, it may not be in the public domain, and the person merely recording the hymnal version of a carol with different instrumentation is infringing.
Thoroughly research the PD status of the underlying work AND subsequent arrangements. Sometimes the most familiar version of a work is the subsequently arranged version.
Cheers,
MichaelL
Public domain is a completely different and often misunderstood beast.
That’s a very accurate statement…to put it mildly. When, and or if, intellectual property enters the “Public Domain” varies greatly, depending upon the type of intellectual property, and the country of origin. Patents can last for 14-20 years, depending on what the patent is for. Trademarks can last forever. Copyrights, which is what composers are most interested in vary. In some countries it is based upon when the work was created and.or published. In other countries, it is based upon when the last living creator of the work died.
For example in the US, works created prior to 1923, are generally PD. However, in countries that go by life of the author plus 70, or more years, it is possible that someone could have composed a work in 1923, but didn’t die until 1953, in which case the work wouldn’t be PD until 2023.
In the case of Apple Loops, you receive a license to use the product. One concern with 3rd party loops and samples, is that libraries don’t want you lifting samples of copyrighted works OR recordings. Remember, even if a composition has passed into the public domain, the sound recording will likely have a copyright in force. So even though Beethoven’s 5th is in the public domain, a recording of it most likely is not.
Cheers,
MichaelL
Hi Len….small world!!!
#1 Yep..I concur. I’ve found BMI to be more accurate, not perfect, but better.
#2 Yes, again. I dealt with two BMI reps in LA, who were great. I was also able to get excellent results with Nashville too. Whether in LA or Nashville, the BMI reps were very friendly and responsive…a completely different vibe.
Dealing with ASCAP in NY was like banging my head against a brick wall. Ultimately my transition was resolved through their LA office, after months of negotiation a few hundred emails and phone calls.
I’m in the middle of moving to the country…the opposite of LA! I’ll be in touch.
Cheers,
Michael