[mojorising]

that being said, I’m shocked when I look at the site and see 99% of the composers doing Non PRO In hopes of getting more sales. Of course the clients go to this page and select Non PRO so they don’t have to deal with it. It really does set a negative precedent.

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I agree Daniel! Thats why I have never signed my songs for a performance free model. I’m sure you know this, but most of the Royalty Free sites still require that cue sheets are filed for anything broadcast. So I think its a decent model because you hit the smaller markets for personal use and are still covered if something is broadcast and there would be PRO money. My main requirement is that they do tiered pricing, so that larger projects pay a larger amount up front. Thats the one thing I really don’t like about P5, that its just one flat rate.

But the library I’m referring to allows the artist to chose, and they put a big button on their website for clients to chose PRO or non PRO so it really puts people like me who will not do the performance free at a disadvantage.

[mojorising]

Have you considered just sending them on the Non Pro side to see if sales increase? Or do you think that is one of those “race to the bottom” things to do, and potentially devalue your music?

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I agree with Music1234 and LA writer!

From just a basic business perspective, listen to what they are offering and what you are taking… This is what I’m seeing at least from my perspective. Of course if you are making a killing from their back end alone then it may be a good deal for you!

“I’m not going to offer you and more money than your currently getting on your non exclusive placements. I’m not going to even start attempting to get sync fees for your placements. But we want to have your songs exclusively now so that you can’t earn money on them anywhere else, and we can sell more blanket licenses that we won’t be sharing with you” If enough composers say F off to that, then their quality and quantity will diminish and eventually they will swing back and start taking stuff non exclusively if they really think they can place it.

MI originally did exactly what Music said above! They rejected the first 65 cues I uploaded and tagged and all that because those were also in JP. I said fair enough, and sent a batch of songs that weren’t with JP or any company like them, and still after doing more uploading and meta data and only getting bout 15 cues in they then came back and said its EX no only. Waste of my time, and just not fair to their composers. I sent Phil a letter giving my thoughts on this by the way, and he seemed to understand. He’s a really nice guy.

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for me the worst thing about MI was that I had a large batch of tracks in their cue waiting to get reviewed for like 8 months. Some I had already spoken to them about and they liked them, so they just kept telling me month after month that they still needed to get them in the system. And then after that wasted effort of meta data, uploading and waiting they sent me the message that they will only take it if its EX. And again, IMO, EX for no up front money is an unfair practice probably only good for people who are just doing it for fun and want to get a few TV placements. I hope people aren’t sending their best work to these types of places!

I have signed music with around 15 NE libraries over the years but their are only about 5 or 6 or so that I keep sending stuff to because either they have gotten me placements or at least I”m in communication and can tell they are doing their part. So far I feel like this is a decent strategy because I’m getting the occasional sync fee, plus some royalty free sales, and a bit of back end money. Still I think I need to keep growing my catalog, staying creative, continuing to improve as a composer/producer, finding what the libraries I’m with are having most success with etc. to get to my desired income. As well as sending music to libraries that compete in different markets. And for me I also continue to gig, and teach private lessons to earn a living. Though I would love licensing eventually to add up to a larger percentage of my income, I don’t need 200K per year. 30K to 40K would be a big success for me 🙂

All that being said, I’m hearing more and more on here that EX libraries may not be the way to go. Just too much competition and different avenues to take to keep your hard work wrapped up in one place and they don’t seem to be way out performing the NEs from the artists perspective. Though that could change in the future, I’d rather keep my options open at this point.

The best libraries for the artist IMO are NE, get sync fees always, also get back end PRO money, have a strict vetting process to only let in quality, actively pitch their tracks, actually know what is in their library, and are willing to maintain some kind of a communication with their artists. And I would only even consider signing something with an EX if they meet all the above requirements. But even then, I’m not currently going that route. Maybe in the future if it really seems to be paying off for people, but so far it seems like EX now a-days in most cases is just another way for the artist to get screwed and the clients to get more for less.

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That all makes sense to me! I get this anxiety every time I finish a new batch of tracks of whether I’m going to spread them out amongst the 5 or 6 non competing non exclusive and royalty free libraries that I’m signed with. Or go with one of these exclusives who have offered me no money up front, music stays in perpetuity or at least 3 years reversion in some cases. I still can’t get myself to do it. They claim that they can get higher prices, more focus on the artist which I suppose may be true. But I have found some non exclusives that really go for quality and do not just let in everything that is sent.

Another note, I have recently found some companies who claim to be EX agree to do a NE agreement with me if they really like the music I send. That sort of tells me its not a major deal breaker with clients whether its EX or NE. Though I could be wrong here?? And if I am then I might be tossing away my 115 or so tracks since they are all pretty much in non exclusives so I obviously can’t do EX with any of those. And I’m still not happy with my income level so maybe EX is the way to go?? I don’t know. But I know for sure I will not sign songs exclusively with companies like JP getting back end only and not sharing blanket fees. That is robbery!! And so many desperate writers are signing on for that!!

Another library who is similar to JP, letter starts with “M” recently switched from NE to EX, and I had already done all the meta data work on about 40 tracks with them. Then I get the email, “we are no longer going to honor our NE agreement, anything you send now must be EX, and we still aren’t going to get you sync fees” I responded that I feel that is really unfair to the artist. And when a large library like them does something like this it can really trickle down and hurt everyone in the end. So I wasted quite a bit of time uploading and tagging those tracks with them.

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Thanks Art, thats kind of what I was afraid of. Good luck with the new batch of tracks!

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thats a good point. Performance free is definitely not something we should make a habit of and I can see how that could become the norm if people do. But the gray area here is that with this model I think you stand to make more money per placement than you would from low end cable back end only shows. But this is only at the higher prices this library is currently charging. If this becomes the norm then those prices will eventually fall.

Our performance royalties are at least always there to protect us, so I probably won’t do this again with songs in the future. But I did it in the spirit of trying everything for experimentation. With the same library I have sold a few songs that were PRO and a few that were performance free. And just to note my sales HAVE NOT sky rocketed since I tried the performance free option. (which is what the library owner kind of had me believing)

[mojorising]

true! but the devils advocate here is what if your not giving up your songs performance royalties all together. You are just granting one library the right to sell it under a different title completely royalty and performance free. I know the same concerns of retitling will come up here, but lets say that doesn’t become as much of an issue in the future as people think. I personally think even with water marking technology the retitle libraries will figure out a way to make their version of your song detectable.

The only reason I have considered this with this library is they are based in a different country, and charge fair prices. I hate when one of my JP songs gets picked up for nothing up front and over time I end up collecting sometimes as low as 10-20 bucks over a few years on that particular cue. Others obviously pay more but in this case I get paid every single time, and if its for something bigger its tiered pricing so I get paid more.

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If you’re looking for the best music libraries available I highly suggest you checkout Music of the Sea, Inc. and Epic Music LA

Hi Jeremy B. I was curious to know if you have first hand experience with Music of the Sea? Its not often that someone directly recommends a library here on MLR so I checked them out and noticed they charge $25 per song submission. This usually would make me run away, but maybe they just do it to reduce the amount of submissions they get?

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Thanks Paolo! From
What I’m told upfront fees has become incredibly rare. I think what you have been reading is just people saying there would have to be upfront money to really convince them to sign exclusively. also I honestly don’t know whether this lbrary would for sure be considered “upper tier”. It is one of APMs libraries, but are they all upper tier?

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Do these EX companies tend to want more vocal placement music or are they also interested in instrumentals?

I am currently signing some songs from a band of mine with one thats under APM. Based in UK, one word starts with an S. Its obviously going to be some time before I see how they operate with the music, so I’m debating whether I should keep sending my new stuff to them or hold off and keep sending my current stuff to the NE’s. This company is exclusive with no money up front in perpetuity with no reversion clause. So kind of scary though I know APM is huge. And this is not the company I mentioned above that got a different band of mine the two network placements.

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I’ve been having these same thoughts as far as where to go next. I also have not had good experiences with exclusive libraries though they weren’t huge PMA type libraries so maybe I just haven’t found the right one.

But my main gigging band just got two nice network placements this last month with our exclusive publisher. Jane the virgin and Chicago Fire. Of course this is “band money” so not a big deal for me income wise but each placement paid 3,000 in sync. This is after one year in the library with one album. they did not pay up front but they don’t take performance royalties and they take a smaller than usual percentage of the sync.

But still I don’t think I will gamble with any exclusives with my own personal stuff that doesn’t pay up front. Its different with your bands music because we aren’t constantly shopping it or adding new tracks to the library. For now I’m still doing NE, and I’m about 6 months in to finally trying a few RF with a few sales so far.

Is there a list anywhere on here for exclusive libraries that do pay up front? Or for the people that say they have done best with exclusive companies would they mind sharing that on the libraries forum? If they are large and exclusive I don’t think it would hurt anyones personal experience with them.

[mojorising]

thats encouraging to hear! Can I ask roughly how many tracks do you make per year? And do most of your tracks go to a mix of Royalty free and Non Exclusive libraries, or do you have one or two Exclusive companies that you work with for the majority of your income? Thanks for sharing.

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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I will definitely not be doing the performance free option. Its nice to come on here and get reminded of what a bad move it is. Have you worked with RF libraries that do blanket licenses? I’m considering signing some songs with one, but it looks like their blankets go as low as 57 per month. So that seems like a good way to place a lot of your songs and not make much money though he said they do share the blanket fees with the contributors.

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