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@music1234 – As you suggested, I sent a note to Cathy Nevins (ASCAP Director of Public Relations) about the negative effects of the ASCAP sample surveying practice. I suggested to her that she read through this thread and provided a link.
@Art Munson – is there a way to make this thread available to Cathy Nevins and her ASCAP colleagues?
@music1234 – where did you get Paul Williams contact info? Even though Art tried a few years ago it seems to me like it is worth five minutes to send the President of ASCAP a note about the issue and remind him that ASCAP is screwing with our ability to earn a living as writers by continuing the antiquated “sample survey” practice!
@music1234 – Good luck with going that route man! I’ve done all that. I filed complaint with ASCAP in 2017, submitted co-writer royalty statements as proof, climbed up the corporate ladder over the course of 6 months (they took 3 months to respond to my initial “inquiry”) and was very persistent about the issue, demanding an explanation for why I was not getting paid. I finally got a vice president of global services on the phone and he basically said “sorry dude”, you are out of luck… “sample surveying” is the excuse he gave… they will tell you the same thing music 1234… they’ve got a team of 10 lawyers on staff who work for ASCAP… it’s an uphill battle man, but I wish you the best of luck!
@Music 1234 I’m in on the class action deal. Where do I sign up? I first realized that I was not getting paid by ASCAP in the summer of 2017 when a BMI co-writer received his second four figure check for a BTN placement that performed extremely well. And over the last couple of years I estimate that I’ve missed out on about 5k on this one track which has continued to perform very well, mostly on BTN Live. But I’ve had several tracks place on BTN as well, around 400 cue sheets in my ASCAP account, at least. When I started digging around and calling up ASCAP to figure out what in the hell was going on, (why would my BMI co-writer be receiving thousands of dollars for performance royalties and I was getting paid NONE, ZERO, NADDA, ZILCH)… I got the ole’ “sample surveying” excuse… so I decided to leave to ASCAP. And now with BMI I’ve had several more BTN placements and I do get paid for them, ALL of them, at least all of the ones to my knowledge. And all the co-writers I’ve had BTN placements with that are BMI writers get paid too. So YEAH, there should be a class action suit against ASCAP in my opinion. They owe me thousands of dollars for all the BTN placements. How do I connect with this lawyer? I want in. -P.G. (https://www.pgbankermusic.com)
You can also write the albums that are most fulfilling for you first… since music is fun… sometimes being overwhelmed with album projects can make it feel like “work”… I also like to bounce around from projects / genres, pretending to be a different artist or person, which can sometimes make the creativity come alive for me. Others might find that process less fulfilling.
Generally I spend 8 -10 hrs per track, on average. If it is a genre where I have a template ready to go then it is closer to 6 hrs, on average. If it is one of my main genres, and I have a reason / incentive (i.e. work for hire w/ tight deadline), I can do it in 4 hrs. But I’m usually focused on making the music as good as it possibly can be, quality over quantity, so I find taking my time is preferable. And like many have mentioned above, mixing and mastering over the course of a few days with fresh ears makes a lot of sense.
How hard would it be to move my catalog to BMI? My 300-ish tracks have over 3000 Title registrations, nearly 1000 cue sheets, plus many publishers and sub-publishers. It seems like an impossible undertaking. Thoughts?
It sounds like you might have a lot of retitling going on in which case it could prove to be difficult but then again I could be wrong. I’m actually going through the process right now. As it turns out you can’t actually just move the entire catalog on your own. When you resign from ASCAP as a writer, they give you an option to keep your catalog with ASCAP or remove it. I chose to remove my catalog. But what they don’t tell you is that your publisher(s) also has to resign the works from ASCAP after you make the switch to BMI. And the publisher has a 3 month window during the year to submit for resignation… just like you have a 3 month window as an ASCAP writer… so the publisher has to wait for that window to open. AND even after ALL of that waiting, to start getting paid by BMI on those works that you and your publisher move, you have to wait for the licenses that ASCAP has in place with the networks which your music is airing on to expire. I have been told by ASCAP it could be up to 5 years before those licenses end. Or 1 year or 2 years. I’m still trying to weed through the process. So at the end of the day, there is no telling how long it will take. However, if you are in it for the long haul and your tracks are going to continue to be used on those networks then it makes sense in my opinion to do it. Or at least do it with the works that you have placing on those networks where ASCAP is not paying you. I have one work which is in 155 cue sheets. My BMI co-writer on that particular work has made over 5K in backend royalties over the last 2 years. I have been paid 125 bucks by ASCAP. I have several works that are performing similarly. So in my opinion, it makes sense to move them over to BMI. I know ASCAP won’t pay on them, so it’s nuts to leave them there in my opinion. But they certainly make the process long and difficult. I haven’t come out the other side yet on the moving of the catalog, still in the muck of it all, probably will be for years to come. So yeah, to answer the question “how hard would it be?”… I think it just depends on how much patience you have 😉
I recently got an email telling me that my resignation from ASCAP is official (April 1st). I resigned from ASCAP last fall (6 months ago). When I resigned from ASCAP I opted to move my catalog. Yesterday (April 2nd) I filled out the paperwork to affiliate with BMI online. Does anyone have any experience, knowledge, advice about moving their catalog from ASCAP to BMI? How long it takes? What hoops you have to jump through to make sure it happens? Any advice / suggestions on going about it, etc.?
As far as moving my catalog from ASCAP, BMI was very efficient at moving my works. BMI has even detected recent performances, and paid me for, 20-year old tracks originally paper-registered in ASCAP that never made a penny with ASCAP.
Thank you MichaelL for that encouraging information! Congratulations on the 20-year old tracks earning royalties through BMI. It simply amazes me that ASCAP gets away with not paying their writers the royalties that are owed to them. I can’t imagine how much money they kept in their pockets over that 20 year time period. It is nothing short of criminal in my opinion!!
I can not say the grass is greener on the BMI side. I really do not see much of a difference for TV show royalties. I am not sure where you feel as though you are getting screwed…is it themes? Background cues on shows? TV Spots?
I certainly think everyone is entitled to an opinion. That is great that you don’t really see a difference for TV show royalties Music321. But I might remind you that the title of the thread here is “ASCAP and their inadequate survey system”. There are several writers here on the thread who have been screwed by the ASCAP surveying system. In my particular case, it is for hundreds of background instrumental placements on CBS, NBC and BTN programs. In several instances, the instrumentals were used for two minutes or more. I hope that more ASCAP writers will chime in with their stories like Sabal Sounds did. It is the exact same situation. ASCAP is not paying performance royalties on cues that are being reported due to their INADEQUATE (might I add ANTIQUATED, UNFAIR & OUTRAGEOUS) surveying system. And when I asked ASCAP Member Services about the surveying time periods, like when do they occur? How often do they happen? The response I got was “we aren’t allowed to give out that information”. So yeah, if you are a BMI or SESAC writer with TV placements then you are DEFINITELY in a better position to get paid performance royalties. If you are writing music for TV then STAY AWAY FROM ASCAP!!! They will screw you on performance royalties from TV shows.
And should I want my catalog to move from ASCAP to anywhere else i have to get all publishers involved which will translate into a nightmare of red tape and more time of not earning as placements are happening.
You should check with your publishers. I’m in the exact same boat. It might be easier for them to make the switch than you think. Depending on the size of your current catalog with ASCAP, whatever royalties you miss out on in those 6 months will be peanuts compared to what you will be screwed out of by the ASCAP survey system over the rest of your lifetime.
The answer for me is a no-brainer. #2.
I agree in theory LA Writer, but the whole re-title issue has become seemingly unpopular with the networks. And the issue of nobody getting paid if multiple libraries pitch the same music (all with different titles) for the same placement. Have you experienced any issue like this? Or problems with retitling?
Additionally, I don’t know if it is just me, but the majority of my placements are coming from exclusive libraries. Maybe I’m just not submitting to the right non-exclusives?
The upfront money needs to be more significant for these type deals. The networks can afford it! It is not just Viacom. I was recently offered similar deal (a bit more money upfront) and was told the network which is an NBC Universal subsidiary would own the publishing 100%. I split my writers share with music library 50 / 50. I don’t blame the music libraries. They are trying their best to deal with the situation and current landscape. Have any composers here had any experience writing direct for networks? That’s the preferred vendor list I’d like to be on.
So I feel your pain, as I’ve probably ‘lost’ upwards of $20K by being shafted by the survey system. So lame that it can’t all be done automatically in 2017.
I couldn’t agree more Mark! It is totally ridiculous that ASCAP is doing a “survey system” in 2017. This is antediluvian behavior!! 20K is way too much money to be screwed on. It must be hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions that ASCAP’s survey system is screwing writers & publishers out of every year. Does anybody know a good class action lawyer?
<is BTN a low tier cable network? what would be the other low tier cable channels/networks? sorry this is all still very new to me.>
I don’t know about the tier info but BTN is now in over 60 million American homes! Also, to reiterate what MichaelL was saying, I’ve been screwed (not paid) by the ASCAP survey system on placements for CBS, NBC and BTN.