[LAwriter]

This is the standard “old school” library contract. No sync split, but an upfront buyout fee. It USED to be a fair fee/deal for most libraries (10+ years ago), but is slipping. In some cases so dramatically that it’s laughable. $0-$100 for a buyout? Hahaha!!! Find another composer. At this point, with back end’s future in limbo (streaming), if you take this type of deal you’d better be sure that the up front fee is enough income for you for that piece in perpetuity. For me, at this stage, I’d want significantly north of $1k to take that deal – OR – to be able to create the entire cue in a few hours making it essentially a a good hourly wage for creating it.

[LAwriter]

Metropolis Arc

[LAwriter]

Definitely a move in the right direction. Still some distance to go though – but fine for RF style libraries or youtube videos or some reality TV. A bit long for most uses, but it could easily be cut down. I know I’m not being easy with you, but this STYLE of music demands the absolute most to be convincing. It’s one of the hardest things to pull off convincingly. There are about 1000 other styles that would let you off the hook easier… 🙂 Good work.

[LAwriter]

Think it´s time I take a step back, too much time going into this and money, will concentrate on other projects ? and leave the library business.

thank you for pulling me back to reality my friend

Oh dear!!! That was not my intent. I think your music has potential, but I think it needs work to be all that it can be. I suppose if that turns you off, maybe you should do something else, but IMO, nothing great ever comes easy. I would encourage you to keep at it. Maybe have someone else mix your music or ??? Best of luck with whatever course you take.

-=LAWriter=-

[LAwriter]

And beatslinger, thank you too, maybe it´s true that I´m imitating too much,,, just trying to get a lot of material out there. I´m not trying for high end at the moment, just to get things rolling. I´m hearing a lot of crap being used and I guess thats the market I´m trying for at the moment.

hi Stein –

Some thoughts. I would NEVER tell anyone to aim towards marketing into the “crap that’s being used” market. That’s a losing strategy before you ever write a note. You need to be the best you can be.

Some thoughts on your music since you asked :

– you need better sounds. The sounds you are using sound dated. You’re competing against real orchestras and the best sample libraries out there. Anything less sounds fake and amaturish.

– you need to work on your orchestration techniques. These sound like unfinished sketches to me. I hear none of the normal contrapuntal orchestra techniques being used that I am used to hearing in great music / recordings. Again, it sounds unfinished and/or amaturish. I want to hear more textural complexity. Orchestra music can sometimes sound deceptively simple, but if you study the contrapuntal lines, the doublings, the counter rhythms, etc. you will find even the simplest of pieces belie their complex underpinnings.

– On the bright side, I didn’t immediately think “imitative” when I heard your music like I often do with people who don’t really have any unique ideas of their own. I think the music itself is pretty strong, but it could definitely be made better.

– you need better production technique and mixing skills IMO. The midi programming leaves something to be desired in the imitation of real instruments. The mixing needs to be top notch to compete in a market that is getting better every month.

good luck!

-=LAWriter=-

PS – FYI,I think the word you were looking for is “critique” not “critic”.

[LAwriter]

Statement – yes. Money – probably early next week.

[LAwriter]

Hey LAwriter you should come up to Oxnard and we can commiserate on the “old” days. I’ll buy lunch!

Oxnard?? Did you survive the fires and subsequent flooding? I sure hope so. What devastation. Next time I’m up towards that area I’ll PM you!! Love to get together and chat. I have plenty of war stories as well…. 🙂

[LAwriter]

I have a solution….. We can no longer “categorize” a music library into a category. Each one must be taken on it’s own merits. They are all morphing too much to lump into a category.

[LAwriter]

Thanks Art.

[LAwriter]

OK. That’s helpful, thanks. But still kind of confusing….

So….is Non-Ex is ALWAYS re-titled for the sake of the library collecting the publishers fee? Or not?

And is RF is NOT retitled? Even if not retitled, RF is Non-Exclusive as well, isn’t it? One can be in multiple RF libraries, no?

From how you described it, it sounds like who holds the publishing is the delineator. But I’m not sure that’s even right. Seems very convoluted with a lot of confusion and cross-definitions going on – like some use RF and NE interchangeably from what I’ve seen.

From my traditional mindset – “royalty free” is not whether or not a piece is registered and collected on by the PRO – it’s the fact that the initial license granted to the “buyer” is in perpetuity (hence the RF) and not controlled as to how they can use it. But I don’t think that’s standard usage in 2017.

And to REALLY confuse things, I’m seeing “layers” or “tiers” of RF now with simple and more complex licenses. Or is that drifting into non-exclusive libraries.

Sorry if this is messing up this thread!!! I think the libraries themselves don’t even know what they are. Art – is there a thread or article you can point me to, or if not, perhap’s you can take these posts and put them into a new thread?

Many thanks for all the explanations guys. but I’m still confused…. 🙂

[LAwriter]

I’m still not seeing the difference between the two. Both are non-exclusive. Both will net you a back end royalty if registered with your PRO. Both can be used in perpetuity (unless the NE libraries specifically forbid that). Both split sync licenses with the composer.

What am I missing here? I’m not trying to be a PITA. I honestly want to understand the differences, if in fact there are some. Are the terms NE and RF used interchangeably depending on who’s talking?

Thanks!!

[LAwriter]

I’m thinking to start at $40-50 per hour because I’ve never done this kind of work and I’m sure there will be some growing pains involved. But I will tell them up front if they like my work and want me to do more then my price will go up as I get better and faster.

I’m going to make a suggestion – and that’s all it is….

– how much does your mechanic charge, and how much investment does he have in tools?
– how much is it for a plumber to come out, and again, how much does he have in tools?
– how much does a handyman charge in your area, and what tools do they bring?
– how much is the shrink per hour that you need to see after you’ve been in this biz awhile? 🙂

Bottom line, if you’re a professional, and your’e dealing with professionals (this is a BUSINESS you’re dealing with, not a teenage band), you shouldn’t be charging much if any less than what each business member pays for their services. If you do charge less, they will take that as an omen that you are not a professional and probably won’t do a good job. That’s my experience chiming in.

So….how do you accommodate for the fact that you’re just starting out and maybe not that fast? You still charge a fair rate, your card rate, and cut back on some of the hours. I’ve done this many times. You get into a project and you’re a bit over your head or you don’t have the proper gear to make it go fast or whatever it is…. if that happens, you cut the number of hours you bill them. You bill them for the number of hours that it would take you if you’ve done it 10X’s before.

That keeps your initial image totally pro – you charge pro rates. It gives them their product at a fair price – you cut down the number of hours it took you, and you still look fast and totally pro, AND – you get to earn while you learn. Again – Win/Win.

Take it or leave it. I’ve learned this stuff the hard way. I could have been retired @ 50 if I was a quick learner. 🙂

[LAwriter]

PS – honestly, compared to other industries, we should be charging $150 an hour minimum for a real studio + engineer. Recently, a friend who is a musician but not professional one – yet professional in another industry – hesitantly approached me as asked how much I charged per hour for my studio and myself. I kind of laughed and said “you probably can’t afford it – what do you think it is?” He thought for a second and hesitantly said “$400 an hour?” I laughed, but you know what, Capitol, Conway, Sunset Sound, The Village, etc. SHOULD be charging that much in order to make a profit. So what’s so expensive about $80 for a modest room + engineer?

Can you tell I’m passionate about this? Haha!

[LAwriter]

Here is a good article on the subject:
https://www.izotope.com/en/community/blog/tips-tutorials/2017/08/how-to-figure-out-your-audio-engineering-rate.html

There is some good stuff in there, but also some paths to limiting your career in significant and often hazardous ways. I’d take it with a grain of salt.

In that big long list of “how to charge” clients, the only FAIR and VIABLE (long term career-wise) way is “per hour” – or perhaps per day (with limited hours). That sets a concrete cost to your services, but not to their project. That leaves you as the constant, and them as the variable – which is how it should be. You have no control of what they will hand you to work on.

If you are fast enough, they are happy and will hire you again – you are worth your wages. If you are too slow, they won’t as you are not worth the cost. But either way – you get paid fairly for your time – which is as it should be.

To complicate the issue : Some people hardly care about what their product sounds like – as long as they can recognize it. Others was to meticulously micro manage every minute detail. How can you flat rate charge either? One benefits from your expertise at a cost to you because they wanted more than they paid for, and the other gets overcharged because you quoted too much in order to protect yourself without knowing exactly how long the project would take.

Both of the above scenarios are legitimate ways of working, and once you can discern a clients habits, you can push that direction. The first gets his project done is less hours (even if it’s not as good as it could be), and therefor gets a smaller budget. The second takes longer and he has to pay more. Both get their fair value. And you get paid fairly.

Win/Win.

It’s a tricky business, and the only way to survive long-term is to protect and take care of yourself. Building a studio, maintaining it, honing your skills, developing clients, etc. is a COSTLY business. And at this point, one that doesn’t want to pay fair wages.

It’s up to you to offer and convince them that your hourly is more than fair, and that you provide good value for their dollar, along with exemplary production skills for their music.

Do that and you will succeed. Good luck.

[LAwriter]

So I assume you work in your own studio and bill them based on your hours? Do they generally have a rough idea on how many hours you will need? By “project rates” do you mean per song, per album, etc?

Yes. My own studio. I charge $0.00,per hour for studio time, and between $65-80 per hour for my engineering. That makes sure people don’t try to get me for cheaper because they are providing a studio. I had to cut that off early on as everyone started putting in their own studio’s. Plus, it cuts way down on the commute times which can be brutal in LA/So Cal. All of a sudden, when they figured out they can’t get me for 1/2 price when working in their studio, and when they realized my studio was significantly superior in many ways, they are back – wanting to work at my place instead of theirs – or their brother in laws.

I’ll generally talk through the budget with a client, the deliverables and the estimated idea of how long it will take, but I make it clear that it could easily come in higher – or lower. There are SO may variables in how a project is delivered, how much editing is needed, how well it’s recorded, if there is tuning involved, if there’s a dozen takes to sift through and make comps out of, etc. that it’s impossible to quote “project” rate without SOMEone getting the short end of the stick. An hourly is fair – and if they trust you, it should be no problem. My clients are generally long time clients / associates who trust me. Or people who have been referred by long time clients. Developing trust – both musically and budget-wise – is key.

And yes, by project rates I mean anything that’s not hourly. When people look for project rates they are looking for one of two things or both :

1. A way to cap the budget where they can afford it.
2. A way to get you to do it for cheaper than your hourly would cost them.

I understand the first and will work with them in helping them understand why it takes so long : 1., they didn’t choose the final takes, they didn’t tune vocals, they didn’t comp the orchestra takes, etc.. and 2. The quality of the recordings themselves, and 3. the complexity of their deliveribles, etc.. Once they understand that, it’s generally fairly smooth sailing. That and I hold communication as KEY in the process. I always give them running updates both budget wise and production wise so they can see where the time is going, and whether or not they can try to do things that will help cut down the budget and make things go faster.

As for #2 – trying to get me for cheaper than my hourly would cost them, well….those are the clients I don’t want to work with. Occasionally I’ll give someone 37 hours of time for 32 hours of payment, but my HOURLY never changes. Once you take that step, you’re sliding on a slippery slope….

[Author]

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