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Thanks guys. M1234 – got your message. (And I pretty much understand the “method” – more or less). I was just wondering how often BMI/ASCAP actually DO THEIR JOB without handholding and cajoling.
IMO, it’s high time for a production music focused PRO. One that takes only seasoned writers who actually are putting out a lions share of broadcast music. One that could care less about the newest hipster indie artist or their booth at SXSW or Coachella. I’d change over in a heartbeat even if it meant a few years of down royalties, cause I know long term, if writers embraced it, it would end up dwarfing ASCAP and BMI and relegate them to bottom feeder status. We are all pretty much aware of where the big $$ is coming from, and who / where it gets doled out to.
Time for a change.
Sorry you guys have to work so hard for something that should just “show up” on your email.
Here’s a question for you guys who do a lot of commercials – maybe Art and/or Music 1234 (or anyone else). Does ASCAP and/or BMI ever just track and pick up the commercials for you – like they should – with no effort on your part? Or are you always left tracking them down, doing the legwork, and trying to get them paid by your own efforts? Just curiosity from a TV underscore guy….
Am I reading this correctly that some people here have *millions* of placements and make pennies?
Yes. You read that correctly. Amazon VOD. Almost 20 million, around $100USD.
would the PRO’s on MLR recommend a newcomer keep most of their tracks in NON-Exclusive libraries?
My strategy is to keep as much control as possible to remain flexible for the future.
Yes. Follow the money. The money lies with the content. I’m trying as much as possible to keep control of my creative works.
so its safe to estimate that folks who started out within the past few years would hit a ceiling thats 1/3 what the vets make in a decade or so
1/3 is a big guesstimate if you’re still getting network, cable and commercial plays. Once it all goes streaming, unless things improve (and I suspect they will the deeper we get) – then you can expect 1/20th payouts at today’s rates.
At least that’s the closest I can figure, and I’ve spent a fair amount of time crunching the numbers.
Again, all from the perspective of a composer (Me) who had a ton of cable, and some network all go streaming.
LAWriter, trying to make sense of your numbers…if you tripled your placements, and assuming your getting same placement stats as 3 years go, if my math is correct, then its BMI that has decreased payouts by 1/3?
Hahahaaaa!! Let me know if you can actually figure out BMI’s math. 🙂 :). :). I’m trying to make sense of them as well.
@MichaelL stated part of the reason, but IMO, that’s only part of the reason. Add in streaming diluting the numbers (at least according to the PRO’s), and what you have is a need for far more performances now than you ever needed in years prior. I’m guessing from full network / cable (old days) to full streaming (sometime in the future) it’s about 20X’s more placements that you will need to equal the same $$ you made traditionally. And yeah, I did the math based on some pretty concrete numbers that I could isolate and quantify.
[[ BTW, we STILL can’t quantify the biggest “broadcaster” out there – NETFLIX – as either they or BMI will not divulge actual stream numbers. ]]. That in itself is a crime IMO.
Here’s just one little (big) example for ya that I CAN quantify with exact numbers. In recent quarters I’ve been averaging between 13,000,000 and 19,000,000 individual performances on Amazon VOD per quarter. Yeah, those are millions. I didn’t accidentally add a zero or two. I’d be willing to wager that that’s a lot of performances in anyones book.
So what’s BMI’s payout you might ask as you’re picturing me laying on a beach in Maui???? 🙂
Roughly $100 for those quarters. ****!!! I can’t even buy LUNCH on my Maui dream trip.
In what universe, or universes yet to be discovered (a tip of the hat to the mouse) is that acceptable? I’m waiting, waiting, waiting…….for BMI’s answer to my polite, yet focused question regarding the above. I’m guessing I’ll be waiting for a loooooong time, cause how can anyone say with a straight face that the average performance on Amazon only pays out :
$0.000006 cents for a performance. That 6 TEN THOUSANDTHS of a cent. And they can’t use Neilson to obscure the realities. That’s Almost 1700 public performances to equal $0.01. One penny.
Now, for transparency, some of these performances may only be 5 seconds long, but MANY are over a minute, so I figure it all averages out.
So all that said, I’m THRILLED for those of you starting out that are exponentially upping your payouts every quarter. It doesn’t seem that long ago that I was seeing 30%, 80%, 60% growth every quarter. Quarter after quarter. I had high hopes. Those days are long gone for me. These days I’m happy for a 10% loss over each previous quarter as a huge portion of my placements move over to streaming services.
Dark times if your placements are in reality TV or even Network that has been siphoned off the air and over to on demand streaming. For those of you with commercials and network promo’s – count your blessings!
Same here Pat.
Same here as well. I’ve hit the BMI glass ceiling. Tripled my content “on air” and virtually no BMI growth in the last 3+ years. The problem is twofold IMO – BMI’s draconian “terms and practices” and the fact that streaming pays 4-8% of what Cable pays, and everything is moving over to streaming…. 🙁
Thank you @MichaelL !! Pretty much as I remembered / expected. BMI are not fools, they have no doubt been down this road many times and know well how to perform (yes, pun intended) a CYA symphony.
I reviewed BMI’s contract. The answers to the questions in this thread and various “HOW CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH THIS?” threads are in their writer agreement. I’ll explain later.
Is there a “you can fight city hall, but you can’t win” clause in it?? Hahaaa! 🙂
Look forward to hearing more Michael. Thanks.
My experience is you can fight City Hall, you just can’t win. ?
Haha!!! :). Yeah, but kind of the same thing, no?