October 24, 2018 at 9:46 am #31113AlanParticipant
The MMA has nothing to do with Cable TV.
Yeah, I get that. My point was that my inbox was slammed weekly about “Modernization” while my actual income relies on their archaic survey system, which they seem to have no plans to address.October 24, 2018 at 10:35 am #31114
As a side note…I STILL after 10 years of collecting back end PRO royalties from TV shows and commercials can not make any definitive conclusions about the confusing payments from PRO’s. I have a big presence with both BMI and ASCAP and have been funneling a lot of my registration energy into BMI since 2015. The fact of the matter is that I still earn more from ASCAP. I actually think getting 8 checks a year verses 4 makes a difference.
Additionally, I had a weird situation where I was paid $557 royalty for a “J” jingle on local “NBC news at 5” for just 1 play! , yet my BMI co writer was paid nothing. Was this a survey “get lucky” scenario? Why was my co writer not paid by BMI? He is going to protest this by the way.
My point is that it really is hard to draw definitive conclusions as both pros have ways of not being transparent.
Their bogus excuse about not honoring cue sheets is ridiculous. The money flow is real simple. Networks produce programs or “content” . Some of it is live sports and news, other programs are video recorded or filmed. All programs do the same thing, they sell ads during the shows. That ad revenue is paid to networks. Networks pay a portion of that revenue to PROS. So there should be money to pay writers for any and all cues used on EVERY show no matter what. The cue sheets should be honored period.
Alan, don’t worry about a lawyer. Please do send in your complaint letter to ascaps board of directors and point them to this thread.
I agree 100% that an archaic “survey” system is far from “modern”.
When all is said and done though, I can not say that BMI will lead writers to the promised land of more money. We’re dealing with a never ending, non-transparent system from all pro’s. To add one more point why did the publisher “M” earlier this year issue checks to their writers with the memo stating “ASCAP BTN Settlement”? Sure I went right ahead and cashed that check but this leaves more questions then answers…? Why is my publisher sending a check as ASCAP settlement? Did ASCAP just say let’s get these guys off our backs and send one lump sum to the publisher to quiet this issue down? Why wasn’t ASCAP sending the royalties on their next domestic check run directly to writers? How did the publisher know how much to send each writer?
The bottom line is that royalties seem to be distributed with a “winging it” type attitude and system of accounting. It should really just be black and white based on facts (as in which tracks actually aired)October 24, 2018 at 10:46 am #31115
If things were distributed ‘black and white” (as they should be) there would be no reason to obscure and hide the accounting methods as all PRO’s do.
On that note, I had a previous post that got nuked into the netherworld. I think because I said that production music is the poor bas**rd stepchild of the PRO environment.
Ridiculous that that was considered as swearing by the “filter” on this site. But…oh well….October 24, 2018 at 10:52 am #31116
LAW, You need to save your mlr posts before you post! Make that a habit.
But are we really the step child to star songwriters? I don’t know? I have heard folks at SESAC say that TV pays a heck of a lot more than pop songs on radio.
If only we could get a tour of the accounting offices at these pros. That would be fun!October 24, 2018 at 12:13 pm #31117Art MunsonKeymaster
Ridiculous that that was considered as swearing by the “filter” on this site. But…oh well….
Too bad. My sandbox, my rules!October 24, 2018 at 1:11 pm #31118
LAW, You need to save your mlr posts before you post! Make that a habit.
Old habits die hard, And as mentioned, it’s not my sandbox…..so others loss is not my problem.October 24, 2018 at 1:18 pm #31119
Too bad. My sandbox, my rules!
I;ve got no problems with that. And I’ve got no problems with a zero tolerance to swearing.
But the phrase “poor bas**** stepchild” I didn’t consider “swearing”. It’s a phrase in common use. But whatever. I’ll try to be more careful, or I’ll just not post anything remotely controversial in that respect.October 24, 2018 at 1:56 pm #31120MichaelLParticipant
Yeah, I get that. My point was that my inbox was slammed weekly about “Modernization” while my actual income relies on their archaic survey system, which they seem to have no plans to address.
That’s because their focus is on traditional pop songwriters. We’re at the bottom of their food chain.October 24, 2018 at 1:57 pm #31121Art MunsonKeymaster
But the phrase “poor bas**** stepchild” I didn’t consider “swearing”. It’s a phrase in common use.
If you wrote “poor bas**** stepchild” exactly as typed (no quotes) then the filter would never pick that up as that is not in the black list. In fact there is nothing in the moderation queue from you. As Music1234 said, make a copy if you are having problems posting.
99% of post go through but I always type long posts, e-mails, comments FB messages in Notepad before I post, just in case something goes wrong.October 24, 2018 at 2:41 pm #31122
well…..bast*** (without ***) is actually a legitimate word in the english language describing :
: something that is spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 3a), irregular, inferior, or of questionable origin
Didn’t seem like swearing to me – it seemed appropriate for my post, but whatever. I’m used to posting all over the internet without losing posts. Except here where I’m batting roughly .600 or so – which I guess is pretty good. (It would be good if a Dodger could bat that well….). But please, forgive my petulance. I’ll take 100% responsibility for not using a secondary app to assemble my posts.December 23, 2018 at 2:17 pm #31412DannycParticipant
well i also fell foul to ASCAP’s survey system. i’m not long doing this but i have not been paid for multiple placements on CBS sports, BTN, Life and more. i resigned from them in the window in October and will be moving to BMI in April. initially i was gonna move all my tracks across but for now i think i’m just going to leave them there with ASCAP and write new tracks to register with BMI. over time it will be interesting to see how things pan out over time.February 11, 2020 at 8:37 pm #34306SYLANTGuest
I stumbled across this post after not getting a straight answer on why i haven’t been paid for my 600K streams of my single AMAZING. Anyways I just wanted to share my video review of my experience with ASCAP, President Paul Williams, SVP Seth Saltzman and a few others. If the youtube link isnt clickable for some reason please copy and paste or search “My ASCAP Nightmare Horror Story”
All in all I’d run far from anyone telling you as an independent artist to register your works with them. They will collect money on your behalf, not share their data or reporting when yours proves them wrong, and pay out peanuts only after you’ve shown your hand.February 14, 2020 at 6:59 pm #34334Strat 56Guest
Did ASCAP change things ? What a pleasant shocker ! I actually received payment for some BTN placements on my SOCAN statement today [ ASCAP is my American affiliate ]. I received just under $2,000.00 for two tracks on ” Campus Eats “. The only other info is ” 09 26 2017 CAMPUS IN “. BTN is a low paying network so I’m not quite understanding things here ? Sure not complaining though 🙂 Could this be an retroactive payment or ? I’ve been getting tons of placements on BTN over the years and never got paid a penny ! I did file a grievance with both SOCAN and ASCAP this past summer and was told the same old story about their survey system and that I was out of luck, but I do remember the rep from ASCAP mentioning that they were reviewing how to handle the issue with BTN and similar networks and that he would get back to me, but he never did. So maybe they’re taking a different approach now ? I have around a dozen tracks being used on BTN for some years now and still being used on a regular basis so hopefully I’m going to get paid for those too. As I understood things, ASCAP didn’t pay for BTN placements or am I wrong about that ? So if anyone has any new info about the issue I would appreciate it. I wish my statement was more clear.February 15, 2020 at 9:43 am #34336
Strat 56, ASCAP is not really in the business of shouting out how and why and when they pay writers for TV performances. Many off us -writers and publishers included – have voiced a great deal of disgust about non-payment for Big Ten Network cue sheets on file. Yes, I am looking at them with my very own eyes right now. All 1000 episodes or “Live games” that aired my music over the last 4 years and no, I have yet to receive a penny from Big Ten Network performances.
BTN is a low paying network so I’m not quite understanding things here ?
Really? is that why it’s “On” every sports bar in the country, every weekend and evenings, and homes across the USA broadcasting live sports entertainment? and advertisers spend money advertising on that network?
I agree, it’s no ABC, CBS, or NBC, but millions of folks still watch those games and hear our music.May 8, 2023 at 7:03 pm #42546yzzman1Participant
I agree with the above – this is a really tough question to answer. I’ve been with ASCAP for a very long time. If I had to do this all over again I would have likely joined BMI as a music library composer primarily – but that’s not how I started in the music business. With all that said – sometimes ASCAP surprises me with how much they pay for a single placement. Sometimes they surprise me with how they pay nothing at all for other placements. It’s like an age old question – which PRO is best. I think their calculations are too complicated for any of us to tell – so my conclusion is – after all this time – I have no clue what the answer is!