Is Jingle Punks dead?

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  • #6339 Reply
    sad about JP
    Guest

    Seems as though ever since JP announced their exclusive library they have given up all communication with their non exclusive members. There are forum posts that are 15 days old and haven’t received a reply yet. Now that they are moving into exclusive music, movie deals, artist deals, are they going to forget about the people who got them where they are? Kinda bums me out….

    #6341 Reply
    Rosco
    Participant

    I was wondering the same exact thing and right when I read your post, an email from JP came through talking about the exclusive library and details on getting into it. Haha. At least some communication now.

    #6343 Reply
    sad about JP
    Guest

    yeah I saw that as well. Guess I should have waited a little longer to post my whining. haha. Go ahead and delete this thread if need be 🙂

    #6344 Reply
    woodsdenis
    Participant

    It seems that they are saying their core clients are going to cease using non-exclusive this year, and going forward will only accept exclusive tracks. Although it is not stated, I would assume that there is little point in submitting non-exclusive tracks to them from this point on.

    You now have a simple choice, submit to them on an exclusive basis or stop altogether. You can of course submit any of your existing tracks with them for the exclusive option, my guess is that the majority are placed with other libraries and would not qualify.

    They have also stated that they have a new 25,000 song collection of exclusive tracks ready to go. Where this came from is anybodies guess, I have never heard of them offering exclusive deals before ?

    Simply put, its safe to regard them as exclusive from now on and whether their track record so far makes it appealing to you to submit.

    If they really do have 25,000 tracks already to go I would think twice about participating further as it would really put you down at the end of the pile. Interesting times all right.

     

    #6345 Reply
    chaosbegetschaos
    Guest

    Maybe the thread should read ‘Are our tracks dead’ – this news has effectively destroyed the value of tracks in non-exclusive libraries i.e. if a track is already in more than one non-exclusive library it’s effectively a dead track as both libraries won’t be able to offer it to  NBC, ABC, Fox or CW … this is going to create chaos – what a mess!

    Seems like were now being bullied into giving our tracks exclusively to libraries with no guaratees and no up front fees – doesn’t seem right .

    #6346 Reply
    woodsdenis
    Participant

    Don’t forget this also puts then into direct competition with the big exclusives who already have relationships with the majors going back years. Jingle Punks has only been around since 2008. This levels the playing field somewhat, as far as the big exclusives go.

    If it really is the case that the all the major US TV networks will only accept exclusive tracks in the near future, then this scenario will happen across the board with different libraries.. How will Crucial and others handle this dilemma ?

    Also as a final thought, there is a whole world of broadcasters out there, apart from US networks that use music also, they have to be serviced too.We shall see how this all pans out, either way this seems a reality for US TV placements going forward.

    Adapt and survive !!!

    #6347 Reply
    chaosbegetschaos
    Guest

    Rreally not happy about this news … just spent the last few weeks submitting to non-exclusives.  Now it seems like all tracks in non-exclusive are effectively being culled from use.  It’s not going to be easy getting tracks back out of non-exclusive libraries and are exclusive libraries even going to accept them if you do get them back?  I wish this thing about networks no longer accepting non-exclusive tunes was made clear earlier – it feels now like my back catalogue is almost worthless!

    #6348 Reply
    Steve
    Guest

    yep, pretty terrible I’d say.  I have no problem with signing exclusive deals that provide an advance.  But JP doesn’t.  And I’m sure that anybody who signs tracks exclusively will see the same types and amounts of placements as before with the non-exclusive tracks.  But now with them being exclusive, you have no other avenues to make money with your music.  You are locked into whatever JP can do for you.  And when you are talking about making a living writing music, 100 + tracks in JP just won’t amount to that much in my experience.

    I’ve done well with JP, and I like them, but with a years worth of tracks on their site I don’t come anywhere close to making a living.  I do make a living from writing music, but JP is just one small part.  And like another poster said… if they already have 25,000 exclusive tracks, realistically what are your chances of getting enough placements on Oxygen and Style to make a living?  Even if you get a bunch of network placements you still need a LOT of DAILY placements for those royalties to add up to something significant.

    I’ll probably sign a few exclusive tracks with them, but unless my next royalty statement has like $5,000 worth of Jingle Punks placements I definitely won’t be signing very many.  Its just not worth it.

    #6350 Reply
    woodsdenis
    Participant

    Jingle Punks contract is 1 year only. If you feel its devaluing your tracks or impairing their opportunities on other libraries you could just withdraw them from the JP catalogue if you can.

    To be fair JP have not as yet stated, what they intend to do with the non exclusive part of their library yet. I am just reading between the lines here.We shall see.

    #6351 Reply
    chaosbegetschaos
    Guest

    Wonder if it would be possible to provide exlcusive re-mixes to exclusive sites? probably not i guess – but what if I produce a new track where I sample or use elements from one of my older tracks already in non-exclusive libraries? Would this new work be accepted by exclusives?

    #6352 Reply
    euca
    Guest

    I read in another article about JP that they have 15 plus in house composers, I would guess most of the 25,000 came from them over the past couple years????

    I also think that their communication on the forum has gone down hill since EJ left at the beginning of the year.

    #6353 Reply
    rsarja
    Participant

    Does anybody know the length of their exclusive deal.  Is it for perpetuity?  If so, this scares me.  If you sign, the song/cue is out of your hands.  There is no guarantee they will get any placements.  Also, say they license a cue to ABC.  They may use the cue once on an episode and never use it again.  So much for multiple placements of the same cue.  Again, it’s out of your hands and control.

    #6354 Reply
    SomeOne
    Guest

    I think that signing a track as exclusive with no up-front money is just a rip off unless its a track they going to use in show again and again.

    If this is where the industry goes…then I don’t wanna be a part of it.

    I think that we as a composers need to fight those exclusive deals, if we will agree to give tracks exclusively for free just as we did with the non exclusive model then we can all get another job.

    If all of the non exclusive libraries will demand an exclusive deal from now on like the one JP offers, and we as a composers will say “pay up-front or we will not sign” then those libraries will be forced to come back to the non exclusive model as they will have no tracks or get out of business, so only the exclusive libraries that pay the composer up front will stay.

     

    Anyway, if this is where its going, my 400 tracks are gone.

    #6355 Reply
    AnotherOne
    Guest

    a plea to fellow composers:

    if you are not doing AT LEASE ONE of the following:

    -playing into a microphone

    -playing real guitar and/or bass

    -leaving parts unquantized, at least partially, especially piano and drums

    -singing

    please don’t submit your bot-music which is clogging up the system.

    #6356 Reply
    Rosco
    Participant

    Whether you are planning to submit exclusively or not in the future based off if you care about upfront exclusive library money or not, this is a huge point to consider: They mention in the email that they will send an amendment to the existing Non-Exclusive contract. They better change the following before any composer even considers (at least I hope) signing over exclusive tracks to them.

    “Nothing contained in this Agreement shall be deemed to constitute a waiver of any fee which shall become due and payable to the relevant performing or other rights society, such as ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, or collection agency, as the result of any use of a Composition or Master by a User, unless Jingle Punks shall have issued a direct license with respect to certain of the public performance rights in any Licensed Song and related Master.”

    Direct licenses benefit nobody but them. Like some of you, there is no telling how many performance royalties we have missed because of all the stuff that their clients have used on Scripps channels or ESPN…..it’s a ridiculous amount for me. They collect the fee and share none to the writers when their music is used. It’s a bunch of bullcrap and can’t continue if I stick around. They originally said in early 2012 and keep saying “no more Scripps” or direct licenses yet I had a recent track that I uploaded to them show up on a show that I will never see compensation for. Sometimes I feel like they have no idea who or where the music is being used or just don’t care if it is on Scripps or ESPN as long as they get their blanket or direct license money. 100% sure it was through them and uploaded very recently.

    I am guessing the 25,000 track exclusive library wasn’t an overnight thing and I believe it wasn’t a buyout of another library since they have had many staff composers for quite some time. All of these direct licenses of my music tell me a few things: 1) My music is better and more usable than any of their exclusive stuff or 2) that they know it is a crappy placement with no compensation so they pitch other artists music from “the JP artist library” instead of their own. Everybody knows that any libraries’ employees, if they are composers/artists, will get the majority of the coveted placements. Just look at any cue sheet that JP has gotten you and you will know what I am talking about. Common name or two show up? I see it all of the time.

    In my opinion, nothing will degrade or de-value our music licensing industry more in this market than signing exclusively if there is a slight chance of direct licensing. Maybe we can get into a discussion of all of the JP cable promo placements next (outside of the nice one Art had that included compensation). Haha. That also needs to change for their exclusive model, in my opinion.

    If anybody at JP reads this, please get better at responding to the forum and to emails. I know that a lot of these old important artists who helped get the library to where it’s at (as ‘Sad About JP’ said above) are noticing. Don’t hire a new composer for the exclusive library, but rather somebody to deal with the artists like EJ used to.

     

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