This thread was started in a music library discussion but I thought it should have it’s own discussion.
71 thoughts on “Making it in the music business.”
Is placing music with an exclusive library all that it seems cracked up to be? Well I have found out that some exclusive libraries are placing their catalogs on royalty-free sites, non-exclusively. Someone here has shown that Audiosparx represents music from exclusive libraries. I have discovered another royalty-free site that does the same thing. To find out for yourself, go to the following link: http://www.soundscalpel.com/libraries/
I myself would feel betrayed if I placed my music exclusively with these libraries, only to have them turn around and place my songs on a royalty-free site. Not that royalty-free sites are bad, but I would rather place my own stuff there than to have it filter through a library. Since these exclusive libraries own the rights to the songs that they have, a composer can do nothing about it.
In summary, exclusive libraries are getting music from musicians and are placing that same music non-exclusively with as many royalty-free sites as possible. I guess that “exclusivity” isn’t all that it seems cracked up to be. Sad times for musicians. SMH!
If that is a link to so called exclusives, well I have to say these are exclusives in name only and hold no position of any note in the production music world. As has been mentioned, there is no way on earth proper, high-end exclusives will place material in a RF library.
An analogy might be if you placed a link on an astronomy forum and said here’s a picture of pluto and what came up was a Disney dog.
I recommend you investigate exclusives in more detail. A good starting point might be the ones Darkstar suggested.
Jello’s ultimate guide to making it in the library biz.
1 – There’s a range of excellent midi string packages available. These can add subtlety to a mix. Real players are fine but they are prone to arriving late and require feeding and watering. Like a plant actually. LASS on the other hand is pretty low maintenance by comparison and cheaper.
2 – Stylus drums rock! – literally! You can’t make it in library without having that legendary ‘Backbeat PushPop’ loop thunderin’ away in the background. Crank it up to 145bpm, whack on some Trilogy and bang!
3 – Aim to use as many sample CDs as possible! That way you get a wide variety of styles and authentic sounds. Another advantage, is if everyone is using the same loop as you it kinda vindicates your decision to buy the product in the first place. I always find that comforting.
4 – Reverse cymbals are very much IN. Building up to a climax? Get your trusty rev cym in there just to pump up the excitement level to 11!
5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!
6 – Be versatile – show you can write in as many styles as possible. OK, that demo reel has some nice hip hop and blingin beats, but you’re underselling yourself. Don’t be shy, vary it with some death metal, chill out jazz and ethnic Peruvian nose flute. In this day and age you have to, quite literally, do it all.
7 – Don’t be too creative – there’s nothing an editor hates more than ‘development’ in a library track. To an editor, this is the library equivalent of jumping the shark. You wanna ‘develop’ that idea? Fine – go to music college and show off there or join a classical music discussion group. Libary? Keep it simple – ‘A’ ‘B’ ‘A’ is all you need. Don’t forget the obligatory 8 bar break in the middle and fade out at the end.
Like one library exec once told me: “The best Christmas trees are the ones that are cheap, can be folded up neatly and stored away safely for a year”
8 – Long intros – the key to a good library track is a good 60-90 second intro (unless you’re doing ‘trance’ – see 11 below). This coaxes the listener into new heterogeneous audio soundscapes. Gradually. It generates expectation, excitement….an-ti-ci-pa—–tion…. Very useful for editors too as it gives them time to get a ‘real’ coffee (as you may know, editors only drink ‘real’ coffee).
9 – Always tout your demo via jiffy bags. Face to face meetings are considered less effective in bringing your product to a library execs’ attention. No, the jiffy bag is the standard form of communciation and has been ever since the late 1920s. Just pop your CD with covering letter in there (with fictitious credits of course!), send it off and responses are generally instantaneous. Lately, some composers have been know to send the demo in in blue (or even red) jiffy bags. Which certainly makes them stand out more and by all accounts gets you a review and response even quicker!
10 – ‘They tell me to be patient!’ – yes, an old myth this. People will tell you library music royalties take years to come through. Don’t believe a word! If you aren’t making a 100k in 6 months get on the phone and hassle them! That’s what they’re there for and, being a gregarious bunch, they also look forward to calls from composers.
11 – ‘The long and short of it…’ – Make your tracks ‘sizeable’. You’re not providing a starter are you? You don’t wanna be known as ‘Mr. Desert’ of the library game do you? No. You wanna be ‘Mr. Main Course’! After all, if they want short that’s what we have 30 sec edits for! Long is good. Long is…the chance to really express yourself. Long is…your way of effectively communicating your intentions to an engaged listener.
6 minutes plus is fine, unless you’re doing trance when 9 mins plus is compulsory with, ideally, a 3-4min intro.
“5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!” – Jello Puddin’
Thanks, but no thanks Jello. It must be an awfully dull life doing what everyone else is doing.
Bottom-line…
Why does one create music (or should I say arrange notes & sounds)? I’d be a composer even if there wasn’t a cent to be made from it. It’s known as a love for the art . You know; it’s all about PASSION!
Making money, although very useful, isn’t much of a life goal. It’s a by-product of work. Passionate, stimulating “work” is all-important. One needs it to fully appreciate life.
In an effort to offer something truly helpful, not snide, condescending or ironic…
Despite what is implied in Jello’s post, it is possible to make some very good music with samples.
So, to those of you sitting at home in a bedroom studio with a computer and a bunch of samples, check out “Where’s the Orchestra” from Mike Patti, one of the developers of CineSamples.
Mike presents an orchestral mock-up and a live recording of the same piece for comparison. Does the live orchestra sound different? Yes. Does the mock-up sound horribly fake and cheesy? Not to my ears, but you be the judge. In 99% of circumstances, the mock-up is great and would work in almost any library.
If it is your ultimate goal to record live, be prepared to submit a mock-up at this level as a demo, especially if you’re trying for an upper tier exclusive library, who will pay you upfront and hire an orchestra to record the track. This will give you an idea of where to set the bar.
FYI. Mike very generously provides a link to a PDF of the score.
Listen, learn and enjoy!
Pay no attention to the grouse behind the curtain.
Thanks MichaelL. I loved his screen casts where he did, let’s say an action cue in 10 mins.
He makes very valid posts on his blog re the whole samples/ musicians/ budget issues re film and TV. The bottom line is use whatever tools you have to make the best music you can and within budget, if that’s your goal.
The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types.. Only the terribly insecure and bitter composer still harps on about this.
>It’s fascinating to see how people have interpreted this fairly innocuous post. I’m gradually becoming more villainous with each new comment.<
Innocuous or not, your condescending approach is fairly consistent throughout numerous posts.
There are a lot of people here. They are not all blessed with your presumed skill, or the good fortune to write for all of the best exclusive libraries, as you apparently do, or with the luxury of live musicians to the degree that you seem blessed.
Seriously, what was the point of your post other than to mock writers less informed, less skilled and less privileged than you (or at least than you perceive yourself to be)?
It really won't help those who are struggling, except perhaps to make them feel worse, or discouraged.
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today. But, I don't see the fun or sport in that.
“The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types..”
Denis…this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of US prime time programming is scored with samples. Many feature scores are hybrids of live and sampled instruments.
Not to toot my own horn, but here’s a reality check: between now and the end of August I will write and produce approximately 3 hours of music that will run on FOX and CW (not prime time) for several years. All of it — 100% –will be produced with samples.
It’s simply wrong, and harmful to new composers, to dismiss technology. Total BS.
In fact, it’s quite the opposite. If you do not embrace technology to it’s fullest, you will be, for the most part, on the outside looking in. You might as well be a blacksmith.
1) Good writing is still good writing. Bad writing sounds just as bad with live instruments as with samples.
2) The difference between pro’s and non-pros is often HOW they use samples. You must know how to use samples. One technique is to use controllers to breathe life into the instruments. For example: when a live trumpet plays a crescendo it doesn’t just get louder, it’s timbre gets brighter. If you’re just changing the volume instead of manipulating volume and tone with controllers, your trumpet will sound like a synth. The same is true with other instruments.
a) play the parts as much as you can, use round-robin samples, and don’t over quantize.
3) Don’t be afraid to use tools like Stylus RMX. Yes, it’s been around for a while. But, there are so many things you can do to modify the loops to create your own sound. Split out the kick drum or snare. Add some compression and FX …change the feel!!! Lock it to Omnisphere and Trilian. Most people only scratch the surface.
4) So if you just want to sip tea up on your pedestal and look down on the rest of us –fine –write chamber music for real instruments — and take comfort in your superiority. But if you really want to work in this business. Embrace technology, study, learn and have fun!
Here’s a bunch of tutorials from the very talented Daniel James — who knows how to get the most out of virtual instruments.
5) Oh yeah — write in as many styles as you want. If your not having fun it ain’t worth it! Maybe you can’t make authentic “Peruvian Nose Flute” music. But, if you’re smart and creative you’ll use indigenous in non-traditional ways.
My point –BE INSPIRED — and don’t listen to all of the negative, condescending BS, from those who are just pumping up their own egos.
Must say, in fairness to Jello, i thought his post was rather funny, although I didn’t see what preceded it and i don’t follow his posts religiously (note the inclusion of “religious” just to get the ball rolling) I use Stylus, a string library, Omnisphere, Trillian and a bunch of others. To each his own. It’s not the tool, it’s how you use it. (been hearing that since i was sixteen)
Regardless of the production paraphernalia, a music track stands alone and will speak for itself. If a track knocks one’s socks off, one would have to be an idiot to question its worthiness based on means of production.
Why do successful composers go through music libraries? I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly. Do music supervisors look down on musicians who send them music directly? Do music supervisors even care about licensing songs directly?
Because sales and marketing of your music is very time consuming, a full time job in itself. Not that there aren’t composers who are successful marketing directly. But many have found that they are better off using the hours in the day to compose more music, not be a salesman.
A few other things…
A large percentage of composers have F/T day jobs and compose on nights and weekends. That doesn’t leave much time for the sales and marketing.
There’s a reason why music sups like libraries. Most libraries have thousands of tracks to quickly search through at the touch of a button. Others are more boutique and will search very carefully for what the client needs and narrow down to a few which they will pitch. They can become “trusted sources” and save a ton of time and aggravation for the sups.
Along the lines of “trusted sources”, there is the business aspect– pre-cleared music, contracts in place, reputation, etc.
In NO WAY am I discouraging people from going direct in their marketing. But it’s wrong to assume how that other 50% is so easy to claim. It’s very hard work. There’s no free lunch.
🙂
PS Did you used to come on here with a name that started with “Y”?
True but I think it would be difficult to for three different user names to all have the same IP address and, if they were truly different people, to know what IP address the others were using.
Not sure about all this gumshoe business trying to figure out identities. The site allows for anonymity. I think either this option should be changed, or a person wishing to remain anonymous should be respected.
Funny, I’m thinking about moving up North with my brother. He lives in Maine.
This area isn’t fit for peaceful living anymore. We’ve gone from 20-30,000 to 200,000 in the last two decades. A lot of drug dealers, corrupt politicians, crimes galore, insane traffic conditions, strip mall after strip mall, loose cats everywhere, etc, etc….
Besides that, it’s a good family environment.
Been busy, though I do stop by daily, but don’t usually stay for discussions.
I don’t think you need to be a salesman to pitch songs to music supervisors. It just seems it would be easier to get consistent work with a direct connection. I know a guy that hooked up with a music supervisor and got songs placed on a full season of a reality TV show. He didn’t get any upfront cash but he got all of the backend for the songs. But he got lucky. Hopefully that sort of luck comes my way.
I just don’t want folks to underestimate just how time consuming and challenging it can be. I’m not talking about the occasional contact, I’m talking on a larger scale with the intention of a degree of financial success. It’s definitely not as simple as a few emails or phone calls followed up by shotgunning out CDs and links.
I don’t know you or your music. What I caution against is getting too focused on changing the ‘other side’ of the game when the music itself is the issue. What I call the ‘music’ encompasses a lot including some or all of composition, production, engineering, natural sounding instruments, matches various sound-likes, readily “tag-able”, and so on. I don’t want to debate the good and bad in music, since it there are lots of variables and grey areas, but I think most folks know what I mean here.
So if your music sounds like it came from a 1980 Casio keyboard (not saying YOURS does) and you are focused on whether to use libraries or go direct, you are putting the energy in the wrong place.
It also is a good idea to build up a bio of placement credits through libraries first (if you have no placements yet), because when you do approach supervisors directly, you can use your credit list to your advantage.
And if most libraries are rejecting your music (again NOT saying that is your situation), that tells you a lot about the overall film/TV marketability of what you are creating.
I totally agree with you. The focus should be on making the best product possible, to make sure that recording quality is good, mixed well, and mastered. Also agree that most of us are not good salespeople, or marketers of our own product, and also handling the money. I had a few experiences back before I started doing this of doing tracks for people and never getting paid, or getting paid too little for my product. Music libraries for the most part are a great way to get you music out there to people, and make some money. Over time you may get the ears of a music supervisor.
I have some info for those who have played the music library game and have lost. If you have over 100 cues in multiple libraries but are not making a steady living off of your music, maybe your music isn’t the problem: maybe you are not visible enough. I myself plan on bypassing non-exclusive retitle libraries. I have discovered that I could probably get my songs placed on these shows myself if I got in contact with the production supervisors. So I did a search and came up with a list of tv producers and executives that I can contact. If you are unafraid of cold-calling a few hundred companies, follow the link: http://www.natpemarket.com/pdf/2010/N10RegistraintsListCountrycompanyLastName.pdf
Synth Player says: “I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly.”
That is completely idiotic. Imagine I have a car factory and I sell cars through dealerships throughout the country, let’s say, 100 dealerships, and they give me 50% of the revenue. Now I think, oh but wait, I could go and sell all those cars myself. NO, you OBVIOUSLY can’t! Good luck having enough hours in the day to be in 100 different places selling your cars at the same time. This is such basic business sense. It’s called scaling up. You cannot physically be in 2 or more places at once, you cannot physically be on 5 phones at once, you cannot sell your music at the same rate as 10 people can ON YOUR OWN. So you make one product, and then you have affiliates sell it for you in volume. THAT is how you get rich. The only exception is when you are such a good deal breaker that you find a deal which other affiliates aren’t capable of closing and/or finding.
To think that it is as simple as “oh yea, all the deals my affiliates get, I’ll just cut them out” is so naive it makes me cringe.
Sorry that you disagree with me. When I go from 100k to 200k, I am implying that a songwriter would get writer’s royalties + publisher’s royalties. Most songwriters only get the writer’s royalties. The music library collects the publisher’s royalties. Also, my PRO pays out the publisher’s share a month ahead of the writer’s share. They get their 50% before I get my 50%.
Just to let you know, I am in talks with two TV production companies. I am not sure where this will lead, but it is exciting talking to professionals over the phone. If all goes well, I may be able to supply about 60 songs directly to TV shows. I am shooting for a deal with no advance but all of the backend royalties (publisher’s share + writer’s share). It isn’t easy but it isn’t impossible either.
So if you have tunes in a music library where they take 50% of the PRO royalty, you register those tunes with Tunesat? Or would those tracks be registered with Tunesat by the music library/publisher?
Any tracks that are with more than one music library on a non-exclusive basis would be difficult to identify with Tunesat since they use the waveform as the identifying factor. There would be no way of knowing who placed the track that picked up the airplay. That’s one big reason I haven’t signed on with Tunesat. And with those tunes that are exclusive to a library, I would think the company would foot the bill for Tunesat – it certainly would be in their best interest to do so. Just curious as to your thinking on this.
At this point all of my deals (which are few) are non-exclusive. I’m not that concerned with who placed them only that I know they have run on the air. As the music library that placed them is getting the publishing income it behooves them stay on top of it. I expect over time more and more libraries will sign with Tunesat but for now I’m paying for it. My thought is that if they don’t show up on my BMI statement I would call the production company and find out who placed the music. I would then try and track down the cue sheet (or lack of), notify BMI and make sure I get paid!
Thanks, Art. Let’s say you have a track that is with three different libraries under three different titles in addition to your original title. What title do you register with Tunesat – your original or one of the re-titled names?
There was one more thing i was gonna put up, but ended up rushing off to a business meeting..
It’s taken from audiomicro’s site, so ill include the link to the page AND the article below :-
80% of PRO Artists Never Receive a Single Broadcast Royalty – Ever!
May 27, 2008 12:28 pm
We learned of this information from an interview for a former US Performing Rights Organization (PRO) employee. Although we cannot prove it’s actually true at this point in time (our internal audit staff is busy tying down the numbers), we are confident that it’s at least directionally correct (i.e. 70% to 90% really). Let’s be clear about one thing – we love PRO and we think they should have even greater authorities in the digital era, which we can address in later posts. But the point of this post is that most PRO artist pay dies and never receive royalties. Artists should be aware that by becoming a member of a PRO, you are not going to magically (or automatically) receive a broadcast royalty check in your mail box. In a world where anyone with a computer can create and record and distribute their own content, becoming an accepted member of these organizations is not such a big deal. Actually, being rejected is pretty much impossibe. There are no prerequisits to joining a PRO (other than being alive and living on planet earth) so be careful to note that just because they will accept your annual membership dues does not mean you will automatically become a part of the broadcast royalty gravy train – you need to get your content placed, in order to kickstart that process, and AudioMicro is the perfect outlet for making that happen. AudioMicro would like to turn you onto the idea of licensing your content through our uniform pricing model, meaning “all customers are created equally”. The model is coined “democratic” because it treats all customers and artists the equally, regardless of the size of the outlet and the content itself. We do not discriminate but rather facilitate your content licensing needs. In addition, we pay the highest royalty rate in the micro stock music industry here at audiomicro so we hope you will feel welcome and trust that we have your best interests in mind – both artists and customers alike.
Posted in: ASCAP, BMI, micro stock music, Performing Rights Organizations, PRO, royalty free music
The PROs in the US don’t charge anything for writers.
Sounds like the authors of that article don’t know much about what they’re talking about.
No detail in this article either… are they implying that everyone is owed money / underpaid by the PROs (probably true), or that most writers simply aren’t on the survey ‘radar’?
It’s widely known that the PROs expect (and build into their annual budgets) that a large amount of what should be paid to writers and publishers isn’t. Especially murky is the world of international royalty distribution.
No doubt the technology is here to ensure a much more accurate system of royalty distribution. The PROs drag their feet on adopting new technology (track recognition, watermarking etc) and make the royalties statements notoriously complicated and ambiguous. Why? It’s in their best interests not to pay out!
As you have mentioned, it is very important to follow up on your royalties before and after the statement comes in. Many links in the chain can break (cue sheets incorrect, missing info, not sent etc) which results in you receiving only part or even none of your royalties.
Don’t rely on libraries and TV shows to do all of this legwork… whenever possible do your own due diligence and chase the royalties that are owed to you. Unfortunately, companies like Pump Audio make this almost impossible, because they re-title without informing you of the new name (and use long ID numbers for track names!)
This is where Tunesat comes in handy for me. I can get a good handle on what is running and check against my BMI statement. If not on the statement call the show and hound them. I only started in June of 2009 so we’ll see on the Jan. statement what happens if things that show up on Tunesat don’t appear on my statement.
I did have one occasion to call a show about music that appeared on Tunesat but I didn’t have knowledge of it. Small cable show but they were more than happy to talk the problem through with me. Turns out it was a problem with Tunesat and the data they received for the schedule. Point is I can better track the music now.
Hi Frank, Not sure what you mean. I have just about all of my music registered with Tunesat. Those that I own and/or have the rights on. I would register all of them but that means the next step up price wise and I’m not quite there, in terms of income, to justify it.
I hope that answers your question. If not just let me know.
I totally agree and I must also add that it is not enough to join a PRO in that,
once you have confirmation of membership, you need to and must follow through with due diligence and register ALL your titles with that PRO so that they can actually pay you! If they don’t have that info they can’t allocate any funds to you!
By way of example:
I have a friend who has been a member of BMI for years and he was whining at me that he has never received a single PRO royalty ( this person is a relatively well known song writer)
So after searching the BMI repertoire on line we discovered that he had never registered ANY of his works/titles with BMI at all !!
long story short, if you don’t register your titles with your respective PRO they can’t pay you because they don’t know what uses they are paying you for so even if you use Tunesat PROs can’t verify the usage and they can’t pay you !!!
In fact I have actually had extremely pleasant surprises BECAUSE I all ways take the time and make an effort to register EVERY single track ( it’s actually quite simple!)
PROs are all ways FREE to join and it is all ways FREE to register your titles with them and you can do it on line
So yes the author of this article is sorely miss informed.
How ever it would not surprise me if those alleged 70-90% of unpaid composer /writers
never bothered to register any of their works
@LL Not entirely correct. When it comes to music used on TV it will usually get picked up off of the cue sheet by your PRO (if a cue sheet gets filed and filed correctly). Most of mine is picked up that way and Tunesat confirms it.
incidentally, BMI have an office in the UK….their contact number is 0207 486 2036 in London.
they have access to ASCAP stuff too, and are great to deal with.
I’ll give you a hypothetical situation where this may be useful…
Lets say a US library/licensing house does the standard 50/50 retitle deal and says theyll register your work with BMI for you. Now you can check here in the uk, without having to spend a fortune on transatlantic phonecalls and call queues.
Incidentally, i also got clarity on the the backend issue in the uk; the money comes to BMI and THEN to PRS ( if youre registered with them, of course).
Ive just spent half an hour on the phone to someone at PRS, and in that time she did admit to me that PRS is a REACTIVE organisation.. Ill explain.
In effect, i was chasing up royalties on american tv show placements from MARCH 2008. Ill repeat that..thats MARCH 2008. I provided as much information as i had, which basically amounted to the names of the shows. This was back in AUGUST 2008.
PRS still havent recieved any conclusive response from either BMI or ASCAP. The rationale given – which is sadly factual- is that because i cannot provide them with CUESHEET and BROADCAST INFO such as dates and times, then they cant do much else but wait.
The point im making, is this; if you KNOW your music is being placed, and you signed up to the prospect of a backend PRO money deal, then please please PLEASE try to get as much info as you can from the library or licensing agency you assigned the music to, including cue sheets if possible. Now to my knowledge, ONLY musicsupervisor.com are that dilligent and thorough. The rest…maybe YOU GUYS can be more forthcoming on that for THE REST OF US?
At the end of the day, a 50/50 ( or whatever the deal is) is only worth the paper its written on, when youre recieving the money no glitches. This isnt the first time ive had to chase things, but this particular situation im almost having to write off, cause i have a feeling someone somewhere didnt bother to even touch the paperwork…
On a suggestive note, LIBRARIES AND LICENSING AGENCIES can really win brownie points if they showed some kind of stats , again a la musicsupervisor and yooka music, to their artists, cause if nothing else, it inspires confidence. The grey area of wether theyd let you know whats going on regarding useage if youve been waiting forever, is another matter; if they let you know EXACTLY where its being used, with salient names details etc to chase your money, then whats to stop YOU from contacting the tv show or production house directly?
Thank you for your time and remember..you cant be too lax about the business end, cause someone else is making ££ or $$ on your hard work.
The same is probably true of most PROs. My partner and I are considering legal advice for a TV ad that ran in the UK two years ago. The money is out there somewhere, but finding it is like taking the stations of the cross. Yet this is where the money in the music business lies. I’ve also had basically the same response when I pointed out that a song of ours was performed in a Dutch Pop Idol/X Factor type show on TV. As I didn’t have the actual date it was used (I came across it by accident on YouTube!), we’ll just have to wait and see. Be careful folks, and very anal retentive when it comes to paperwork.
Thanks for the kind words Steve. Now about those pounds:-) Really though, I have learned as much as anyone here. It’s helped me tremendously on where to pitch and who to pitch to. It’s also made me realize how much work has to go on in the back end admin part of this biz. So thanks to everyone for being so forthcoming and willing to share their experiences!
Happy Tofurkey day to all. There is much to be thankful for, with or without a national holiday!
Is placing music with an exclusive library all that it seems cracked up to be? Well I have found out that some exclusive libraries are placing their catalogs on royalty-free sites, non-exclusively. Someone here has shown that Audiosparx represents music from exclusive libraries. I have discovered another royalty-free site that does the same thing. To find out for yourself, go to the following link: http://www.soundscalpel.com/libraries/
I myself would feel betrayed if I placed my music exclusively with these libraries, only to have them turn around and place my songs on a royalty-free site. Not that royalty-free sites are bad, but I would rather place my own stuff there than to have it filter through a library. Since these exclusive libraries own the rights to the songs that they have, a composer can do nothing about it.
In summary, exclusive libraries are getting music from musicians and are placing that same music non-exclusively with as many royalty-free sites as possible. I guess that “exclusivity” isn’t all that it seems cracked up to be. Sad times for musicians. SMH!
That is pretty lame, but I guess they’re entitled to do that. Did they pay you upfront? I hope so!
“Is placing music with an exclusive library all that it seems cracked up to be?”
Yes.
” Well I have found out that some exclusive libraries are placing their catalogs on royalty-free sites, non-exclusively.”
I don’t think you’re going to find content from : KPM/DeWolfe/Boosey/Westone/Audio Network/Extreme etc etc etc on *any* royalty free site.
😉
Not saying you’re wrong … but that’s a sound effects page – not music. Read the ‘library’ blurbs.
If that is a link to so called exclusives, well I have to say these are exclusives in name only and hold no position of any note in the production music world. As has been mentioned, there is no way on earth proper, high-end exclusives will place material in a RF library.
An analogy might be if you placed a link on an astronomy forum and said here’s a picture of pluto and what came up was a Disney dog.
I recommend you investigate exclusives in more detail. A good starting point might be the ones Darkstar suggested.
Jello’s ultimate guide to making it in the library biz.
1 – There’s a range of excellent midi string packages available. These can add subtlety to a mix. Real players are fine but they are prone to arriving late and require feeding and watering. Like a plant actually. LASS on the other hand is pretty low maintenance by comparison and cheaper.
2 – Stylus drums rock! – literally! You can’t make it in library without having that legendary ‘Backbeat PushPop’ loop thunderin’ away in the background. Crank it up to 145bpm, whack on some Trilogy and bang!
3 – Aim to use as many sample CDs as possible! That way you get a wide variety of styles and authentic sounds. Another advantage, is if everyone is using the same loop as you it kinda vindicates your decision to buy the product in the first place. I always find that comforting.
4 – Reverse cymbals are very much IN. Building up to a climax? Get your trusty rev cym in there just to pump up the excitement level to 11!
5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!
6 – Be versatile – show you can write in as many styles as possible. OK, that demo reel has some nice hip hop and blingin beats, but you’re underselling yourself. Don’t be shy, vary it with some death metal, chill out jazz and ethnic Peruvian nose flute. In this day and age you have to, quite literally, do it all.
7 – Don’t be too creative – there’s nothing an editor hates more than ‘development’ in a library track. To an editor, this is the library equivalent of jumping the shark. You wanna ‘develop’ that idea? Fine – go to music college and show off there or join a classical music discussion group. Libary? Keep it simple – ‘A’ ‘B’ ‘A’ is all you need. Don’t forget the obligatory 8 bar break in the middle and fade out at the end.
Like one library exec once told me: “The best Christmas trees are the ones that are cheap, can be folded up neatly and stored away safely for a year”
8 – Long intros – the key to a good library track is a good 60-90 second intro (unless you’re doing ‘trance’ – see 11 below). This coaxes the listener into new heterogeneous audio soundscapes. Gradually. It generates expectation, excitement….an-ti-ci-pa—–tion…. Very useful for editors too as it gives them time to get a ‘real’ coffee (as you may know, editors only drink ‘real’ coffee).
9 – Always tout your demo via jiffy bags. Face to face meetings are considered less effective in bringing your product to a library execs’ attention. No, the jiffy bag is the standard form of communciation and has been ever since the late 1920s. Just pop your CD with covering letter in there (with fictitious credits of course!), send it off and responses are generally instantaneous. Lately, some composers have been know to send the demo in in blue (or even red) jiffy bags. Which certainly makes them stand out more and by all accounts gets you a review and response even quicker!
10 – ‘They tell me to be patient!’ – yes, an old myth this. People will tell you library music royalties take years to come through. Don’t believe a word! If you aren’t making a 100k in 6 months get on the phone and hassle them! That’s what they’re there for and, being a gregarious bunch, they also look forward to calls from composers.
11 – ‘The long and short of it…’ – Make your tracks ‘sizeable’. You’re not providing a starter are you? You don’t wanna be known as ‘Mr. Desert’ of the library game do you? No. You wanna be ‘Mr. Main Course’! After all, if they want short that’s what we have 30 sec edits for! Long is good. Long is…the chance to really express yourself. Long is…your way of effectively communicating your intentions to an engaged listener.
6 minutes plus is fine, unless you’re doing trance when 9 mins plus is compulsory with, ideally, a 3-4min intro.
Hope that helps.
Jello
To the above I would add the following:
Take one salt shaker. Remove lid. Take one grain of salt…….
LOL! I follow/break many of those rules. If I have learned anything in life it’s – There are no rules!
I think this is Jello’s attempt at irony LOL
I agree Denis.
Unfortunately, there are some for whom the irony may sail over like an RAF typhoon.
It would be sad if a newbie took this stuff seriously, and became discouraged, or tried to follow the “sage” advice.
What does it take to get that bitter?
Thats made my day that has 🙂
“5 – If it’s been done, do it harder!!! Why try and create your own unique sound when you can follow in the footsteps of others! If there’s lots of a particular genre about, then it’s there for a reason!! The reason? Because everybody loves it of course!!!” – Jello Puddin’
Thanks, but no thanks Jello. It must be an awfully dull life doing what everyone else is doing.
Bottom-line…
Why does one create music (or should I say arrange notes & sounds)? I’d be a composer even if there wasn’t a cent to be made from it. It’s known as a love for the art . You know; it’s all about PASSION!
Making money, although very useful, isn’t much of a life goal. It’s a by-product of work. Passionate, stimulating “work” is all-important. One needs it to fully appreciate life.
Anyone can make money. Boring, very…
OK fellow writers:
In an effort to offer something truly helpful, not snide, condescending or ironic…
Despite what is implied in Jello’s post, it is possible to make some very good music with samples.
So, to those of you sitting at home in a bedroom studio with a computer and a bunch of samples, check out “Where’s the Orchestra” from Mike Patti, one of the developers of CineSamples.
Mike presents an orchestral mock-up and a live recording of the same piece for comparison. Does the live orchestra sound different? Yes. Does the mock-up sound horribly fake and cheesy? Not to my ears, but you be the judge. In 99% of circumstances, the mock-up is great and would work in almost any library.
If it is your ultimate goal to record live, be prepared to submit a mock-up at this level as a demo, especially if you’re trying for an upper tier exclusive library, who will pay you upfront and hire an orchestra to record the track. This will give you an idea of where to set the bar.
FYI. Mike very generously provides a link to a PDF of the score.
Listen, learn and enjoy!
Pay no attention to the grouse behind the curtain.
Cheers,
Michael
http://wherestheorchestra.com/2011/02/sampled-vs-live-orchestra-example-7/
PS. No I do not work for CineSamples. I am merely a satisfied customer.
Great stuff MichaelL. Thanks for some useful info instead of the nonsense stuff from a certain semi-solid liquid:-)
Thanks MichaelL. I loved his screen casts where he did, let’s say an action cue in 10 mins.
He makes very valid posts on his blog re the whole samples/ musicians/ budget issues re film and TV. The bottom line is use whatever tools you have to make the best music you can and within budget, if that’s your goal.
The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types.. Only the terribly insecure and bitter composer still harps on about this.
“The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago.”
Amen Denis. I couldn’t agree more!
It’s fascinating to see how people have interpreted this fairly innocuous post. I’m gradually becoming more villainous with each new comment.
At this rate, in 10 posts time my ’11 step guide’ will be denouncing religion and casting doubt upon the moon landings.
Amusing 🙂
>It’s fascinating to see how people have interpreted this fairly innocuous post. I’m gradually becoming more villainous with each new comment.<
Innocuous or not, your condescending approach is fairly consistent throughout numerous posts.
There are a lot of people here. They are not all blessed with your presumed skill, or the good fortune to write for all of the best exclusive libraries, as you apparently do, or with the luxury of live musicians to the degree that you seem blessed.
Seriously, what was the point of your post other than to mock writers less informed, less skilled and less privileged than you (or at least than you perceive yourself to be)?
It really won't help those who are struggling, except perhaps to make them feel worse, or discouraged.
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today. But, I don't see the fun or sport in that.
Michael
“The whole boring argument about technology v real musicians was over twenty years ago. Jello and co, get over it. This is the real world. Take my word on this Sylus/Trillian/LASS etc are being used on Movie/TV/ libraries every day, with great results and by composers with a lot more pedigree than the Luddite detracting wobbly dessert types..”
Denis…this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of US prime time programming is scored with samples. Many feature scores are hybrids of live and sampled instruments.
Not to toot my own horn, but here’s a reality check: between now and the end of August I will write and produce approximately 3 hours of music that will run on FOX and CW (not prime time) for several years. All of it — 100% –will be produced with samples.
It’s simply wrong, and harmful to new composers, to dismiss technology. Total BS.
In fact, it’s quite the opposite. If you do not embrace technology to it’s fullest, you will be, for the most part, on the outside looking in. You might as well be a blacksmith.
1) Good writing is still good writing. Bad writing sounds just as bad with live instruments as with samples.
2) The difference between pro’s and non-pros is often HOW they use samples. You must know how to use samples. One technique is to use controllers to breathe life into the instruments. For example: when a live trumpet plays a crescendo it doesn’t just get louder, it’s timbre gets brighter. If you’re just changing the volume instead of manipulating volume and tone with controllers, your trumpet will sound like a synth. The same is true with other instruments.
a) play the parts as much as you can, use round-robin samples, and don’t over quantize.
3) Don’t be afraid to use tools like Stylus RMX. Yes, it’s been around for a while. But, there are so many things you can do to modify the loops to create your own sound. Split out the kick drum or snare. Add some compression and FX …change the feel!!! Lock it to Omnisphere and Trilian. Most people only scratch the surface.
4) So if you just want to sip tea up on your pedestal and look down on the rest of us –fine –write chamber music for real instruments — and take comfort in your superiority. But if you really want to work in this business. Embrace technology, study, learn and have fun!
Here’s a bunch of tutorials from the very talented Daniel James — who knows how to get the most out of virtual instruments.
5) Oh yeah — write in as many styles as you want. If your not having fun it ain’t worth it! Maybe you can’t make authentic “Peruvian Nose Flute” music. But, if you’re smart and creative you’ll use indigenous in non-traditional ways.
My point –BE INSPIRED — and don’t listen to all of the negative, condescending BS, from those who are just pumping up their own egos.
The very talented Daniel James offers many virtual instrument tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dazexus
Cheers and best of luck to all,
Michael
Must say, in fairness to Jello, i thought his post was rather funny, although I didn’t see what preceded it and i don’t follow his posts religiously (note the inclusion of “religious” just to get the ball rolling) I use Stylus, a string library, Omnisphere, Trillian and a bunch of others. To each his own. It’s not the tool, it’s how you use it. (been hearing that since i was sixteen)
Regardless of the production paraphernalia, a music track stands alone and will speak for itself. If a track knocks one’s socks off, one would have to be an idiot to question its worthiness based on means of production.
Why do successful composers go through music libraries? I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly. Do music supervisors look down on musicians who send them music directly? Do music supervisors even care about licensing songs directly?
Some do both for multiple revenue streams.
Because sales and marketing of your music is very time consuming, a full time job in itself. Not that there aren’t composers who are successful marketing directly. But many have found that they are better off using the hours in the day to compose more music, not be a salesman.
A few other things…
A large percentage of composers have F/T day jobs and compose on nights and weekends. That doesn’t leave much time for the sales and marketing.
There’s a reason why music sups like libraries. Most libraries have thousands of tracks to quickly search through at the touch of a button. Others are more boutique and will search very carefully for what the client needs and narrow down to a few which they will pitch. They can become “trusted sources” and save a ton of time and aggravation for the sups.
Along the lines of “trusted sources”, there is the business aspect– pre-cleared music, contracts in place, reputation, etc.
In NO WAY am I discouraging people from going direct in their marketing. But it’s wrong to assume how that other 50% is so easy to claim. It’s very hard work. There’s no free lunch.
🙂
PS Did you used to come on here with a name that started with “Y”?
Advice: “Did you used to come on here with a name that started with “Y”?”
Haha! I’ve thought the same for awhile. IIRC, Art said it was a different IP, but proxy servers can be used to get around that.
I think that Art ID’d him as “Jimmy Boy.”
True but I think it would be difficult to for three different user names to all have the same IP address and, if they were truly different people, to know what IP address the others were using.
Not sure about all this gumshoe business trying to figure out identities. The site allows for anonymity. I think either this option should be changed, or a person wishing to remain anonymous should be respected.
Hey John (the other John). Wondered where you were.
Assuming the you are “that” John (not saying you are), I’m thinking about moving north of you, wherever that may be, in a year or two.
Cheers,
Michael
Yep, PA John here. 😀
Funny, I’m thinking about moving up North with my brother. He lives in Maine.
This area isn’t fit for peaceful living anymore. We’ve gone from 20-30,000 to 200,000 in the last two decades. A lot of drug dealers, corrupt politicians, crimes galore, insane traffic conditions, strip mall after strip mall, loose cats everywhere, etc, etc….
Besides that, it’s a good family environment.
Been busy, though I do stop by daily, but don’t usually stay for discussions.
Take care, John 🙂
I don’t think you need to be a salesman to pitch songs to music supervisors. It just seems it would be easier to get consistent work with a direct connection. I know a guy that hooked up with a music supervisor and got songs placed on a full season of a reality TV show. He didn’t get any upfront cash but he got all of the backend for the songs. But he got lucky. Hopefully that sort of luck comes my way.
Synth,
I just don’t want folks to underestimate just how time consuming and challenging it can be. I’m not talking about the occasional contact, I’m talking on a larger scale with the intention of a degree of financial success. It’s definitely not as simple as a few emails or phone calls followed up by shotgunning out CDs and links.
I don’t know you or your music. What I caution against is getting too focused on changing the ‘other side’ of the game when the music itself is the issue. What I call the ‘music’ encompasses a lot including some or all of composition, production, engineering, natural sounding instruments, matches various sound-likes, readily “tag-able”, and so on. I don’t want to debate the good and bad in music, since it there are lots of variables and grey areas, but I think most folks know what I mean here.
So if your music sounds like it came from a 1980 Casio keyboard (not saying YOURS does) and you are focused on whether to use libraries or go direct, you are putting the energy in the wrong place.
It also is a good idea to build up a bio of placement credits through libraries first (if you have no placements yet), because when you do approach supervisors directly, you can use your credit list to your advantage.
And if most libraries are rejecting your music (again NOT saying that is your situation), that tells you a lot about the overall film/TV marketability of what you are creating.
🙂
I totally agree with you. The focus should be on making the best product possible, to make sure that recording quality is good, mixed well, and mastered. Also agree that most of us are not good salespeople, or marketers of our own product, and also handling the money. I had a few experiences back before I started doing this of doing tracks for people and never getting paid, or getting paid too little for my product. Music libraries for the most part are a great way to get you music out there to people, and make some money. Over time you may get the ears of a music supervisor.
I have some info for those who have played the music library game and have lost. If you have over 100 cues in multiple libraries but are not making a steady living off of your music, maybe your music isn’t the problem: maybe you are not visible enough. I myself plan on bypassing non-exclusive retitle libraries. I have discovered that I could probably get my songs placed on these shows myself if I got in contact with the production supervisors. So I did a search and came up with a list of tv producers and executives that I can contact. If you are unafraid of cold-calling a few hundred companies, follow the link: http://www.natpemarket.com/pdf/2010/N10RegistraintsListCountrycompanyLastName.pdf
Good luck. 😉
Thanks man. I am going to need luck this time.
I can’t hold it in any longer.
Synth Player says: “I mean, if you are making 100K a year through libraries, it would be reasonable to get at least 200K through placing your own music directly.”
That is completely idiotic. Imagine I have a car factory and I sell cars through dealerships throughout the country, let’s say, 100 dealerships, and they give me 50% of the revenue. Now I think, oh but wait, I could go and sell all those cars myself. NO, you OBVIOUSLY can’t! Good luck having enough hours in the day to be in 100 different places selling your cars at the same time. This is such basic business sense. It’s called scaling up. You cannot physically be in 2 or more places at once, you cannot physically be on 5 phones at once, you cannot sell your music at the same rate as 10 people can ON YOUR OWN. So you make one product, and then you have affiliates sell it for you in volume. THAT is how you get rich. The only exception is when you are such a good deal breaker that you find a deal which other affiliates aren’t capable of closing and/or finding.
To think that it is as simple as “oh yea, all the deals my affiliates get, I’ll just cut them out” is so naive it makes me cringe.
Sorry that you disagree with me. When I go from 100k to 200k, I am implying that a songwriter would get writer’s royalties + publisher’s royalties. Most songwriters only get the writer’s royalties. The music library collects the publisher’s royalties. Also, my PRO pays out the publisher’s share a month ahead of the writer’s share. They get their 50% before I get my 50%.
Just to let you know, I am in talks with two TV production companies. I am not sure where this will lead, but it is exciting talking to professionals over the phone. If all goes well, I may be able to supply about 60 songs directly to TV shows. I am shooting for a deal with no advance but all of the backend royalties (publisher’s share + writer’s share). It isn’t easy but it isn’t impossible either.
So if you have tunes in a music library where they take 50% of the PRO royalty, you register those tunes with Tunesat? Or would those tracks be registered with Tunesat by the music library/publisher?
Any tracks that are with more than one music library on a non-exclusive basis would be difficult to identify with Tunesat since they use the waveform as the identifying factor. There would be no way of knowing who placed the track that picked up the airplay. That’s one big reason I haven’t signed on with Tunesat. And with those tunes that are exclusive to a library, I would think the company would foot the bill for Tunesat – it certainly would be in their best interest to do so. Just curious as to your thinking on this.
At this point all of my deals (which are few) are non-exclusive. I’m not that concerned with who placed them only that I know they have run on the air. As the music library that placed them is getting the publishing income it behooves them stay on top of it. I expect over time more and more libraries will sign with Tunesat but for now I’m paying for it. My thought is that if they don’t show up on my BMI statement I would call the production company and find out who placed the music. I would then try and track down the cue sheet (or lack of), notify BMI and make sure I get paid!
Thanks, Art. Let’s say you have a track that is with three different libraries under three different titles in addition to your original title. What title do you register with Tunesat – your original or one of the re-titled names?
I have a master catalog number that I use for Tunesat. Tunesat doesn’t know or care about the title, it’s only looking for a wave form to identify.
Thanks for all the info, Art. I’ll give them a call.
There was one more thing i was gonna put up, but ended up rushing off to a business meeting..
It’s taken from audiomicro’s site, so ill include the link to the page AND the article below :-
80% of PRO Artists Never Receive a Single Broadcast Royalty – Ever!
May 27, 2008 12:28 pm
We learned of this information from an interview for a former US Performing Rights Organization (PRO) employee. Although we cannot prove it’s actually true at this point in time (our internal audit staff is busy tying down the numbers), we are confident that it’s at least directionally correct (i.e. 70% to 90% really). Let’s be clear about one thing – we love PRO and we think they should have even greater authorities in the digital era, which we can address in later posts. But the point of this post is that most PRO artist pay dies and never receive royalties. Artists should be aware that by becoming a member of a PRO, you are not going to magically (or automatically) receive a broadcast royalty check in your mail box. In a world where anyone with a computer can create and record and distribute their own content, becoming an accepted member of these organizations is not such a big deal. Actually, being rejected is pretty much impossibe. There are no prerequisits to joining a PRO (other than being alive and living on planet earth) so be careful to note that just because they will accept your annual membership dues does not mean you will automatically become a part of the broadcast royalty gravy train – you need to get your content placed, in order to kickstart that process, and AudioMicro is the perfect outlet for making that happen. AudioMicro would like to turn you onto the idea of licensing your content through our uniform pricing model, meaning “all customers are created equally”. The model is coined “democratic” because it treats all customers and artists the equally, regardless of the size of the outlet and the content itself. We do not discriminate but rather facilitate your content licensing needs. In addition, we pay the highest royalty rate in the micro stock music industry here at audiomicro so we hope you will feel welcome and trust that we have your best interests in mind – both artists and customers alike.
Posted in: ASCAP, BMI, micro stock music, Performing Rights Organizations, PRO, royalty free music
LINK TO PAGE :-
http://www.audiomicro.com/royalty-free-music-blog/category/bmi/
“annual membership dues”?
The PROs in the US don’t charge anything for writers.
Sounds like the authors of that article don’t know much about what they’re talking about.
No detail in this article either… are they implying that everyone is owed money / underpaid by the PROs (probably true), or that most writers simply aren’t on the survey ‘radar’?
It’s widely known that the PROs expect (and build into their annual budgets) that a large amount of what should be paid to writers and publishers isn’t. Especially murky is the world of international royalty distribution.
No doubt the technology is here to ensure a much more accurate system of royalty distribution. The PROs drag their feet on adopting new technology (track recognition, watermarking etc) and make the royalties statements notoriously complicated and ambiguous. Why? It’s in their best interests not to pay out!
As you have mentioned, it is very important to follow up on your royalties before and after the statement comes in. Many links in the chain can break (cue sheets incorrect, missing info, not sent etc) which results in you receiving only part or even none of your royalties.
Don’t rely on libraries and TV shows to do all of this legwork… whenever possible do your own due diligence and chase the royalties that are owed to you. Unfortunately, companies like Pump Audio make this almost impossible, because they re-title without informing you of the new name (and use long ID numbers for track names!)
This is where Tunesat comes in handy for me. I can get a good handle on what is running and check against my BMI statement. If not on the statement call the show and hound them. I only started in June of 2009 so we’ll see on the Jan. statement what happens if things that show up on Tunesat don’t appear on my statement.
I did have one occasion to call a show about music that appeared on Tunesat but I didn’t have knowledge of it. Small cable show but they were more than happy to talk the problem through with me. Turns out it was a problem with Tunesat and the data they received for the schedule. Point is I can better track the music now.
I had a lovely email from tunesat the other day. Im really impressed that they cover the us AND europe now.
What i did squirm a little at, was the rate card/prices …hmmm
I would hope, in time, as Tunesat scales up, prices will come down.
Art, are you using Tunesat on songs that you have placed with music libraries, or only on songs that you own and control the publishing rights?
Hi Frank, Not sure what you mean. I have just about all of my music registered with Tunesat. Those that I own and/or have the rights on. I would register all of them but that means the next step up price wise and I’m not quite there, in terms of income, to justify it.
I hope that answers your question. If not just let me know.
Dean:
I totally agree and I must also add that it is not enough to join a PRO in that,
once you have confirmation of membership, you need to and must follow through with due diligence and register ALL your titles with that PRO so that they can actually pay you! If they don’t have that info they can’t allocate any funds to you!
By way of example:
I have a friend who has been a member of BMI for years and he was whining at me that he has never received a single PRO royalty ( this person is a relatively well known song writer)
So after searching the BMI repertoire on line we discovered that he had never registered ANY of his works/titles with BMI at all !!
long story short, if you don’t register your titles with your respective PRO they can’t pay you because they don’t know what uses they are paying you for so even if you use Tunesat PROs can’t verify the usage and they can’t pay you !!!
In fact I have actually had extremely pleasant surprises BECAUSE I all ways take the time and make an effort to register EVERY single track ( it’s actually quite simple!)
PROs are all ways FREE to join and it is all ways FREE to register your titles with them and you can do it on line
So yes the author of this article is sorely miss informed.
How ever it would not surprise me if those alleged 70-90% of unpaid composer /writers
never bothered to register any of their works
@LL Not entirely correct. When it comes to music used on TV it will usually get picked up off of the cue sheet by your PRO (if a cue sheet gets filed and filed correctly). Most of mine is picked up that way and Tunesat confirms it.
well yeah!! you are correct Art!!!!
your comment better clarifies the point I am trying to make and I thank you for that
You Rock Art !!!
and Thanks again
I am just curious if any of you would share what kind of PRO income you receive?
It all depends on a number of variables Tim
incidentally, BMI have an office in the UK….their contact number is 0207 486 2036 in London.
they have access to ASCAP stuff too, and are great to deal with.
I’ll give you a hypothetical situation where this may be useful…
Lets say a US library/licensing house does the standard 50/50 retitle deal and says theyll register your work with BMI for you. Now you can check here in the uk, without having to spend a fortune on transatlantic phonecalls and call queues.
Incidentally, i also got clarity on the the backend issue in the uk; the money comes to BMI and THEN to PRS ( if youre registered with them, of course).
Hi all,
Ive just spent half an hour on the phone to someone at PRS, and in that time she did admit to me that PRS is a REACTIVE organisation.. Ill explain.
In effect, i was chasing up royalties on american tv show placements from MARCH 2008. Ill repeat that..thats MARCH 2008. I provided as much information as i had, which basically amounted to the names of the shows. This was back in AUGUST 2008.
PRS still havent recieved any conclusive response from either BMI or ASCAP. The rationale given – which is sadly factual- is that because i cannot provide them with CUESHEET and BROADCAST INFO such as dates and times, then they cant do much else but wait.
The point im making, is this; if you KNOW your music is being placed, and you signed up to the prospect of a backend PRO money deal, then please please PLEASE try to get as much info as you can from the library or licensing agency you assigned the music to, including cue sheets if possible. Now to my knowledge, ONLY musicsupervisor.com are that dilligent and thorough. The rest…maybe YOU GUYS can be more forthcoming on that for THE REST OF US?
At the end of the day, a 50/50 ( or whatever the deal is) is only worth the paper its written on, when youre recieving the money no glitches. This isnt the first time ive had to chase things, but this particular situation im almost having to write off, cause i have a feeling someone somewhere didnt bother to even touch the paperwork…
On a suggestive note, LIBRARIES AND LICENSING AGENCIES can really win brownie points if they showed some kind of stats , again a la musicsupervisor and yooka music, to their artists, cause if nothing else, it inspires confidence. The grey area of wether theyd let you know whats going on regarding useage if youve been waiting forever, is another matter; if they let you know EXACTLY where its being used, with salient names details etc to chase your money, then whats to stop YOU from contacting the tv show or production house directly?
Thank you for your time and remember..you cant be too lax about the business end, cause someone else is making ££ or $$ on your hard work.
Big Love
S R DHAIN
DIRECTOR
JUICY AUDIO PRODUCTIONS.
The same is probably true of most PROs. My partner and I are considering legal advice for a TV ad that ran in the UK two years ago. The money is out there somewhere, but finding it is like taking the stations of the cross. Yet this is where the money in the music business lies. I’ve also had basically the same response when I pointed out that a song of ours was performed in a Dutch Pop Idol/X Factor type show on TV. As I didn’t have the actual date it was used (I came across it by accident on YouTube!), we’ll just have to wait and see. Be careful folks, and very anal retentive when it comes to paperwork.
Thanks for the kind words Steve. Now about those pounds:-) Really though, I have learned as much as anyone here. It’s helped me tremendously on where to pitch and who to pitch to. It’s also made me realize how much work has to go on in the back end admin part of this biz. So thanks to everyone for being so forthcoming and willing to share their experiences!
Happy Tofurkey day to all. There is much to be thankful for, with or without a national holiday!