Negative People on Music Library Report

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Art Munson 1 day, 14 hours ago.

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    Kevin Johnston

    I peek in on this site to get recommendations on libraries to submit to, but the site is so overwhelmingly negative I put on blinders and grab the information I want as quickly as possible and leave.

    I am not for censoring anybody, and it is not my site, so I suppose letting it evolve into a whining session is not up to me. But I will say I grit my teeth when I come here. I also continue to make money from music despite the assurance from many on here that the music industry is over.



    I peek in on this site to get recommendations on libraries to submit to, but the site is so overwhelmingly negative I put on blinders and grab the information I want as quickly as possible and leave.

    To be honest, there are some really great people on here, that give some great information; and have helped out tremendously.

    But, I do say as well that I think it is not fair, is in poor taste; and just down-right pathetic that:

    1) Some people here have been being so negative, and whoa is me/doom & gloom to scare off the new-comers; and the not as seasoned/semi-pros that are really trying to make a living at this.

    2) Giving GREAT Libraries “Bad Reviews, and Bad Ratings/Scores”. Just because you weren’t accepted, doesn’t mean you have to be “Garbage” about it!

    3) A Lot of things lately have been turning into arguments. There’s no need for all that. Put that energy into your music/work, and maybe that will get you further; and into the better libraries.

    This site/forum has helped me TREMENDOUSLY, but we can’t just take from here, then cover the trails that lead to “The Good Fishing Holes”. There seems to be no camaraderie lately, and no sense of “Fair Competition”.

    **Also** I don’t know WHO it was that said sending submissions to the email addresses listed on the websites of the majors doesn’t work. I know for fact “YES, IT DOES!!”



    Thanks for this Kevin. It’s a sentiment I feel also as a relative newcomer in a way.
    I join for a set period and then leave again for maybe a couple of years, for the reasons above.
    I’d love to be here all the time ! But it feels rather like the same old arguments go round and round in circles. Maybe that’s just my perception because I’m not here 365 days of the year ?


    Art Munson

    but the site is so overwhelmingly negative

    Not necessarily true. Granted the most recent change at P5 has generated a lot of negative comments and one or two people are the most vocal (Music234 are you listening?). Overall though, within the last 10 years that has not been the case.



    but the site is so overwhelmingly negative

    I wouldn’t go that far. Over the last 2 years I have lurked so much on MLR and have learned so much about how this industry works, and I am forever grateful. I don’t post that much yet because I don’t think I have enough experience to offer valid opinions that would be useful to new comers. I would honestly say the majority of users are very helpful and supportive.

    That said I really do think there are 3-4 people on the site, who post pretty often of course, that every time I see their name, I know it’s gonna be something negative and unproductive, and just skip to the next comment. There are people like that in every forum and every industry. The kind of people that if you listen to everything they say you wouldn’t ever get anything done in your life.

    If the site had an “ignore” button I would definitely use it on these 3-4 people.


    Paul Biondi

    @Kevin Johnston

    …overwhelmingly negative…

    When there are changes happening (royalties, composer deals, number of placements dropping, etc) most folks here are discussing and contemplating their next move and it’s mostly in the spirit of helping. But some of what you said I agree with — there are complainers and whiners but it’s just a few people who’ll sound-off but then won’t let it go. And they have their reasons for doing that.

    But for you and me and many others who are here and experiencing success with writing for libraries, the comments of whiners complainers isn’t for us. And I think you’ll find it it easy to avoid reading their posts.

    When I was transitioning from gigging to writing music for libraries, I found the community here friendly, sharing and eager to help with everything from business (contracts) to gear (ergonomic set-ups) and of course the ratings of libraries.

    Try the other end of things with posting a question and I think you’ll see the best of people.



    i felt the same way starting out here a few years ago where i took comments personally and sometimes felt insulted or shamed…i still think other forums are way worse. to the point where i don’t even want to comment or post a question to avoid humiliation.

    but something changed the more I grew in this field. I started to “get” what they mean and where they’re coming from. I’ve gone back and reread past posts and advise that once felt like personal attacks or discouragements after i’ve crossed those bridges and eventually saw things more clearly..

    I believe most folks here mean well on offering quality information, and are sincerely trying to guide newbies in the right direction according to their experiences. but a disconnect is unavoidable between the vets who’s been at it for years/decades and newcomers whose seeing this industry with fresh eyes. you just have to understand that their outlook is rooted from a much deeper perspective…they’ve seen all the changes through out the years, and already know what works for them and what does’nt, which may or may not be applicable to the reader.

    At the end of the day its to your discretion if you’ll take the information/advise or not. follow new trends or stick to tried and tested methods . . . note that every discussion here will have folks for and against it…while the majority will stay quiet (especially ones who are experiencing success in the present landscape)

    Im just grateful there is such a place like this now where you can get first hand information related to this field…



    -i took comments personally and sometimes felt insulted or shamed

    I agree with everything you said boinkeee but if I may speak for the OP, I don’t think he was talking about being insulted or humiliated personally, more like a general negative attitude with a couple of users. Just people who will whine about anything.


    Art Munson

    Thanks for the kind words everyone!

    I’d like to think that MLR is a positive and encouraging place to visit. It’s a tricky balance to let everyone have their say but I agree when 2 or 3 people constantly take the negativity to the extreme it becomes annoying.

    I have kicked people off of MLR before for various reasons that impact the overall positive experience here and will not hesitate to do so again.

    Thanks again!



    As a newbie,..Just about 1 year in this business, MLR has been an invaluable resource for me.

    Acting upon the experiences and recommendations of industry vets I have been able to carve out a nice side income for myself in this short time.

    If I had to approach this all by myself, the learning curve would have been much steeper. I’m standing on the shoulders of giants and for that, I’m deeply grateful.



    yeah xev i kinda figured i went off topic with my post…i was refering to another thread were some folks got a bit confrontational to a commenter who had a conflicting point of view, thus my sentiments…I have since then got over it as even the harshest of critics here mean well when you step back and look at it in their perspective…



    I dont know, I find the free speak add value. Nowhere else can you find this. One man’s “negative” can be another man’s “positive”. Negative people tends to be engaged and root for change, positive people just go with the flow and doesn’t really add new perspective, afik.

    If we are grown-up’s, we should be able to solicit valuable opinion ourselves. However, if negative comments is a competitive strategy to scare people off, it’s not legit.




    I suppose I’ve been accused of being “negative” more than a couple times in my life. 🙂 🙂

    The thing is, I’ve been doing this for DECADES, and I’ve got the experience and stats to back up what I say. (Mostly…. 🙂 ) But I’m pragmatic, a realist, and a dreamer as well. For every time someone accuses me of being negative, there’s another time, where I’m trying to play into what many would call an “unrealistic” dream. LOL I try to balance those equally, but there are times that realism just hits home, and it comes out “negative” to someone who either doesn’t understand me, doesn’t understand the industry, or just has a delicate spirit that can’t handle the realism put forth. Why is there negativity? Cause the reality is : the world is a pretty ugly place. Especially for musicians trying to earn a living at music. It just is.

    30+ years ago, in the early 80’s when I joined the musician’s union barely out of HS, VP Vince Di Persio told me that only 6% of “professional musicians” doing “professional gigs” earned 100% of their living from music. (And that included teaching). Insane. And that was the early 80’s. The heyday of music. When virtually anyone with a modicum of talent and perseverance could get in and “make it”. And make it I did.

    From that point, until now, I’ve earned 100% of my income from music. I’d guess that by now, that 6% has dwindled down to 0.00007 % or so. Insane. And yet….here we are. I feel blessed that I still earn my entire living from music – most of it from writing – and I support a family as well.

    Is that negative? Or positive? I guess it depends. It’s a positive for me. BUT, and here’s the rub….I couldn’t have made it to where I am today without the help and communication and helping hands of others in the same boat. And that’s where MLR comes in. It’s an extremely valuable resource. Not a feel good dreamland.

    MLR is a unique place. A place that library writers can gather, discuss the options out there, get advice, research libraries, and yes : DISCUSS difficult issues – with other professionals and like minded individuals intent on the same goal – making production music. Hopefully it can be done pragmatically, but the reality is, we are faced with a myriad of problems that will sink us unless discussed and navigated around. Critical issues such as :

    – ASCAP not paying on valid cue sheets
    – BMI being as transparent as MUD when it comes to payments
    – Publishers who under contract lie to your face, and do not honor their commitments.
    – Publishers who underhandedly change the rules, and don’t bother to tell you.
    – “Writers” who literally steal your music, retitle it, and call it their own. THEN, start collecting licenses on your music.
    – The current situation with streaming and the collapsing performance royalty paradigm
    – How to navigate the subscription wars
    – How much is “enough” for a master rights / publishing buyout
    – How 2019 compares to 1999. (This is an UGLY and negative subject from my perspective – I’ll admit it)

    So there you go. Plenty of negativity. But also, plenty of opportunity to learn from those who’ve “been there, done that”. Plenty to learn from outside the box thinkers who are doing it differently than you or I am. Plenty to learn.

    I’ve probably learned the most useful stuff I’ve learned from ‘negative” people in this industry. Without them, I’d probably be driving a UPS truck….



    PS – the funniest thing is….upon getting to know them, I’ve found “negative” people some of the funniest, coolest to hang with, most talented individuals on the planet. Go figure… LOL



    @LAwriter- The early 80’s was the end of the golden era. I was lucky enough to be there in the ’70’s where it was really hopping and be one of those “6%” at Local 47. Actually did pretty well. The TV/Film strike in 1981 nuked the musicians. It was the biggest mistake the union ever did. That decade was a transformation period. I personally did not see a future and decided to change gears.

    I have continued on a relatively low level and even though I do not put in a lot of effort, I have a enough success to make it fun. I have another career now that puts the food on the table

    I have received very good information from this forum, and very good direct tips from some of the members. The negative writers are a stark reminder that it is not easy to be financially successful in music. However, it was tough in the Golden Era too. Unless there are personal attacks on other members, the negative posts actually add value.

    While my experience is pretty dated, I think it still applies. Assuming that one has the requisite talent, success in the business primarily comes from extensive work in building relationships and being politically savvy. We used to go by a saying “no matter how good you get, there are 20 people that came into town yesterday that can blow the doors off of you.” It kept us humble.

    Once you have the people in the positions of power liking you personally, it is developing a reputation that you can do the work and do it well. You show up on time. You are consistent. You don’t alienate others you are working on the project with.

    Hope the comments keep coming.

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