[Art Munson]

“In the library world, the first piece of production music I ever wrote that I don’t think is particularly great just can’t be stopped.”

Amen, I have one of those too on a daily major network show. I venture to say that same library, today, would turn down that cue.

[Art Munson]

>That’s a great point and may be the reason I don’t do better on the RF sites. I’m much more focused on the TV placements and their particular requirements.<

Yeah, and I think that’s why I’ve been gravitating toward moving toward a couple more non-ex libraries rather than RF libraries. My intuition tells me that the catalog I have will work better with libraries that focus on television. RF sounds like a great idea but maybe needs a new batch of work on my part that is focused in that direction.

This discussion has been super helpful! Thanks to everyone!

[Art Munson]

“But if I compare a single cable blanket placement to a single RF sale, then I come up with a difference of RF being ten times higher.”

I’m looking at the whole “enchilada” though. I have about equal the number of tracks on both RF sites and the libraries going after shows. The “show” libraries do much better.

I’ve also noticed that my income from RF sites does not go up appreciably with the volume of tracks I upload to them. The opposite is true for the “show” libraries. YMMV though.

[Art Munson]

>Library music income alone wouldn’t cut it for me!<

Amen! And beyond that,  in my experience so far, it’s been completely impossible to get any sort of grip on what’s got legs and what doesn’t. In the work-for-hire stuff it seems like it’s always that one little tension cue that I did in a couple of hours that gets played over and over but then one of my “masterpieces” will get some love too while the rest of the tracks (that I think are really good) barely make it into the show. In the library world, the first piece of production music I ever wrote that I don’t think is particularly great just can’t be stopped. It keeps getting used over and over and I have no complaints.

One thing I feel like I’ve learned for sure is to always keep moving and never get too involved with any one thing. Finish it and move on and get it out there. Fate will decide the rest…

[Art Munson]

“If I send a track like I’ve written for the RF libraries to the folks that hire me for shows they will get anxious and ask me to tone it down and focus. The extra minute and added “artistry” is a useless distraction to them.”

That’s a great point and may be the reason I don’t do better on the RF sites. I’m much more focused on the TV placements and their particular requirements.

[Art Munson]

Thanks for chiming in Art and Michael N. Art, you’re the main person I was thinking of when I said earlier that I know there are people on here that are doing well with the non-exclusive model…

I think that it’s hard to have a completely meaningful discussion about this stuff without certain details such as what types and genres of music are involved and the composition style. I almost always write television cues unless I’m writing for a specific opportunity that calls for something else. That means most of my tracks are 1-2 minutes in length and I’m thinking of television edit-ability and usability as I go. The RF libraries I’m with wanted longer tracks and aren’t as concerned with things like stings and certain types of breaks. If I send a track like I’ve written for the RF libraries to the folks that hire me for shows they will get anxious and ask me to tone it down and focus. The extra minute and added “artistry” is a useless distraction to them. All I’m trying to say is that it seems obvious to me that the music and writing style itself has as much more to do with success as the library model. Obviously, finding the best fit between the two is optimal and that’s what I’m trying to do…

[Art Munson]

“The average gratis-license royalty as reported on my July ASCAP statement was $1.95 for each placement. I can earn $20.00 for a royalty free sale, or ten times that!”

I have to disagree here. My BMI income far outweighs what my RF income is by a factor of almost 10 to 1. That BMI income is about 85% from non-exclusive libraries.

[Art Munson]

>”This is not a business that you can dabble in.”<

I don’t get this at all… Writing for music libraries seems to me to be perfect for dabbling. In fact, at the moment it’s hard for me to think of a business that’s more suited as such. I would imagine that most people that write for libraries are also doing something else. I personally make a living doing music production. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is producing and engineering recordings for other people and the rest is from writing but about 90% of my writing income is from sources besides libraries. Hence my original post. I’m now trying to figure out how to get that library percentage to increase.

I want to be clear, I’m not debating you on the discouraging nature of the numbers. To the contrary, I see it in my own experience. The numbers can be quite discouraging. I suppose it all depends upon one’s perspective.  If I were depending on library music to make a living I wouldn’t be making much of a a living (I wouldn’t be making a living at all). But, as it is, an interesting and enjoyable sidebar to the other things I do in music, I love it. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t care about the value of production music. I do and I want to do my part to preserve it. I would love to see everyone here making more. That would be neat but I digress…

As time moves on I hope to do more writing and less other stuff just because I enjoy it so much. Time will tell if that’s possible for me but if it is I doubt that it will solely be through library music (although I understand there are several here that do quite well). I’m hoping that library music can be a good part of it though.

I’m just glad there’s more than one path and we’re all free to figure out our own.

 

[Art Munson]

“>Why throw your tracks into the gratis-license pool for $10?<

Hi Michael, I can confirm what you wrote. The average gratis-license royalty as reported on my July ASCAP statement was $1.95 for each placement. I can earn $20.00 for a royalty free sale, or ten times that! $1.95 just ain’t worth it! I’m so glad my custom composing/song writing work (non-library) has picked up!”

Amen to this! I definitely see this phenomenon each quarter.  In my case, it seems to happen just as often with tracks from exclusives as non-exclusives. Actually, this whole conversation has me thinking of checking into placing more music into RF situations. Right now I’ve got tracks with two and one of them is a regular small paycheck. Even so, I can definitely see the potential and the possible advantages.

 

 

[Art Munson]

@MichaelL

“You won’t like my answer.”

Actually, I like your answer just fine and  I certainly appreciate that you’ve taken the time and effort to respond.

To date, my approach is similar to yours. Almost everything that I have out there at the moment was written directly for a show (work for hire) or is signed to an exclusive library. I currently have a handful of tracks in two non-exclusives and there only a small amount of overlap. It’s just something I’m checking out (further signing with non-exclusives) but I’m not advocating it one way or another. To me it’s just something I’m looking into and this is an interesting conversation and I’m trying to learn more.

As far as the library I was referencing in my original post, they still haven’t answered my upload question and, from where I’m at now, they just seem to want to stockpile tracks without doing much beyond that. All well and good and, really, none of my business if I’m not working with them but with all the options out there they’re not looking so attractive to me at this point so I’ll probably just let it go and move along.

Thanks again!

 

[Art Munson]

@MichaelL

“Just imagine being on the RECEIVING end of that mess. Think it gives the producers a warm and fuzzy feeling about composers? We are our own worst enemy.”

Out of curiosity, how do you think composers can stop being “our own worst enemy”? On the one hand,  you advise not turning one’s back on any income stream but you also seem to be saying that we are causing ourselves problems by participating in some of them. What’s your approach? Is this just the way it is or is there a solution?

[Art Munson]

>Is it possible that their critical listening comes later? For example, you do the paperwork and upload say 30 cues. They listen to your uploads and reject 15 of them? So this initial listening of just 10 seconds was only to get you to the next step?<

It’s possible, I suppose, but that’s not what I’m gathering from their communication…

I think they may be making it easy for me to decide since I’ve asked them a question regarding a confusing request in their upload process (they want ID3 tags on wav files which I don’t think is possible?…) and so far I’m not getting a reply. Of course they may be very busy and unable to reply for a while but I’m glad to mull it over in the meantime and keep the option open.

What I believe I’m seeing here is a company that’s a sidebar to other pursuits in the music business. They seem to be passive and willing to stockpile whatever is sent to them in case something comes up. Of course, I could be wrong, maybe they’re more active than they appear to be. Regardless, they can conduct their business however they see fit. What I found off putting in the first place was the initial dishonesty in saying that they were listening to music that they were obviously not. It’s not a big deal but to me it is a weird way to start a professional conversation – it just puts a little bad taste in my mouth, that’s all…

Besides all that, the way I work is that I try to stay busy and productive no matter what, then I weigh out the opportunities and prioritize them. I find that it all kind of takes care of itself that way. Since I posted this yesterday morning other opportunities have started looking better and this one has faded. I’ll just pursue those other opportunities first and let this one sit for a while. If, later on, I end up with the time and the effort seems worth it may send these folks some music. If they eventually fall off my list that’s fine too.

The main thing for me is to keep moving forward and hopefully always keep learning along the way…

Thanks again everybody!

 

[Art Munson]

Sometimes they get listened to and sometimes they don’t. You should e-mail Mark (the owner). He’s a very straight up guy.

[Art Munson]

Thanks to everyone for your responses!

[Art Munson]

@ MichaelL

Thanks for your response. I was specifically asking about folks feelings and thoughts toward libraries that accept music without listening to it first. Let me attempt to clarify, I already have music in both non-exclusive and royalty free libraries. I’m not wrestling with that particular business decision and I don’t think I’m “above” any particular business model. The non-exclusive and RF libraries that I’m with did listen to my music first and the royalty free library I’m with is actually very active during the composition process. I just have concerns about a library that doesn’t seem to care but otherwise presents itself well. I would think that that attitude could possibly reflect back on it’s contributors but that’s where I’m not sure and I’m asking for insight and/ or experience here.

 

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